So you do you also think Men's only titles simply should not exist either Kupov? There sure are many of them.
In chess? Mens only titles exist to give women a chance to compete in sports dictated by physical strength, like boxing etc. In chess the titles should be the same for everyone.
I have to break into a divergent point, here... With no offense to anyone or any group in particular, I think the problem is a bit bigger than all of this, and making a seperate title for the women only underscores it.
SOME women's sports are deserving of this type of seperation, as mentioned above, women's boxing. This being said, using cheaper titles as a way of encouraging feminine participation is simply absurd. Who here decided to play chess because they wanted to be able to walk around saying, "Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a GRANDMASTER!"? You?... no... you?... no... ME?... umm... no.
The real problem here is that most women (no offense, again, to those women to whom this doesnt apply)... simply don't care to learn or to play chess.
Why? Who knows? Maye, just maybe, its the old stereotype that "woman wasn't meant to be able to think for herself" still haunting us. If this is the case, then the solution to the problem is simply to treat women as equals... while there still is a distance to go on this, I believe we are headed the right direction, and making progess every day... and has nothing to do with creating new titles just so they can feel special. More likely, I believe, is that most women simply think DIFFERENTLY.
In the early 80's, we saw a reformation in the educational systems in the US, that sought to bring girls (whose grades were suffering) back into line with the boys in test scores. They restructured how the classes were taught... less creative input, less spontaneity, less hands on. More sit and be quiet, raise your hands, and straight answers to straight questions. The girls test scores have risen, and boys test scores have plummeted. So far, it seems, we have not yet learned how to teach them equally well in a single classroom... not that either is smarter or more deserving than the other... we simply think differently.
In todays world, where, admittedly equality is not achieved, neither from a racial nor a gender basis, we still have women NASCAR drivers, women boxers, etc... women have risen to prominance in several fields including business, politics, and sports... all of which were once the exclusive domain of men. Heck, the word GOLF actually means Gentelmen Only, Ladies Forbidden. Surely chess has been much more open and accepting than many of these fields. And yet, the problem remains. Perhaps the problem is as simple as most women not having the least bit of interest in chess.
I have 3 children... girl (10) boy (9) girl (7). All of them are in the excellerated learning courses at their schools, and all of them have been taught the rules of chess, and encouraged to play. Of them, only my son enjoys the game in the least. My other children are just as intelligent, yet my oldest is having me teach her Web Design, and my youngest wants to be a veterinarian (go figure)... and neither of them cares the slightest about chess.
I would love to find a woman that I could really match wits with on a chessboard... but I would also love to find a woman that loves to work on cars as much as I do... or that blacksmiths as a hobby as I do... and while I am sure that there are women like this in the world, they are, unfortunately, in the significant minority.
Perhaps introducing them to it at an early age will help... perhaps it will require having a female Fischer take the scene and wow them... yet somehow, I doubt that either of these will provide a long term solution.
I am willing to try whatever women themselves think might work... but somehow, I am not holding my breath with catching most women's interest.
I just don't think females have been exposed to the game as much as males. But I am hoping this is changing and will continue to change in the future.
On what do you base this?
I just don't think females have been exposed to the game as much as males. But I am hoping this is changing and will continue to change in the future.
On what do you base this?
Because I see chess offered as a co-curricular activity in 'all boys schools' but not in 'all girls schools' Kupov for one thing! Also how many men have told me their parents taught them as opposed to women I know not having being taught by their parents.
Oh, you know the curriculum for every single all boys/girls school in the world?
I went to a school open to both girls and boys...(like almost every single school in North America) and the chess club was made up almost entirely of girls, however I know how silly it is to base an argument on one example.
By the way I am talking about elementary school. I think that in highschool there is a lot of pressure on girls to the pretty/popular type, and so they would not get into chess.
I must reply to the guy talking about chess is on the decline and more ppl played during the fisher boom.
That just isnt true. There were less clubs and tourneys then. So it seemed more ppl were then, then now.
Membership of USCF
69-13488
70-22623
71-26536
72-30844
now the boom comes
73-59250
74-59779
then there was slow decline till 89 when 51043
then a nice steady climb in membership
until we reached a peek in 2003 of 95,388
today there is 82803
chess is still strong and there is more tourneys then ever in the US.
What happened in 2003? poker went boom and we lost some. But still ppl talk doom and gloom and yet chess is still growing all over.
I speak to many families here Kupov... I am not talking about the whole world OBVIOULSY! It gives a very good impression and explanation for why there is so many men as opposed to women adult chess players.
You talk to many families and they all tell you "we will teach our sons to play chess, but not our daughters"? I do not believe that.
I live in China, where you see men playing chess everywhere on the streets. I asked a female Chinese friend why you never see girls playing, and her answer was "because chess is war, and girls don't like that" ...
Maybe there's thruth in it: chess is a very individual game, where you have to break the opponent on purpose - by definition not very social, so by definition less appealing for girls?
I live in China, where you see men playing chess everywhere on the streets. I asked a female Chinese friend why you never see girls playing, and her answer was "because chess is war, and girls don't like that" ...
Maybe there's thruth in it: chess is a very individual game, where you have to break the opponent on purpose - by definition not very social, so by definition less appealing for girls?
China is one of those countries where the women are raised to be quiet, meek and obediant, as well as being stupid.
There is oppression in china, but for you to call the women stupid Kupov just show exactly how ignorant you are.
Ugh, are we going to be this politically correct? Obviously not every woman in China is stupid, however the way they are brought up, and encouraged absolutely does not promote intellectualism or free thought.
I don't care if you believe it or not Kupov.
Ok so people you know have told you that they will not teach their daughters to play chess...but they will teach their sons?
I could not play chess with anyone who looks like Alexandra ! I would immediately complain to the arbiter that my opponent is distracting me ! 
I believe , on average, females just dont take winning/losing as seriously as males do. Over the years I have played both young girls and boys in chess and the ones I have seen cry when they lose have always been boys, I have never seen a girl cry when they lose. I have witnessed this also in other things, like softball when I used to play in a church league years ago. The teams were co-ed and when we lost the males were always more concerned about losing than the females. I think its an ego/competitive thing. My wife is a good chess player and loves the game as much as I do but when she loses she doesnt have a hard time sleeping at night like I sometimes do.
Yes, women can be WGM's or a woman GM as they said earlier. The GM title from open tournaments, and I believe the WGM comes from women-only competition. I may be wrong, but seems it was so at one time if not now.
Why Should women have more titles offered? Because they are prettier ... }8-)
i think it could be that girls in other parts of the world have the same thoughts as those in China.. that chess is like war and girls generally don't like those.. that's why it is not appealing to girls and as suc hther're fewer female players..
and i do think also that yea, women should just have the same titles as men.. since they "work" just as much as men, and so should be treated equal.. not more.. and certainly not less also..
just another thought, if Judith Polgar (or another top female chess player) gets a chance to fight for the World Championship and win it (or at least win the chess World Cup), might actually make more women interested in chess.. so, although i'm male, i do hope that one of those females win the World Championship or chess World Cup for the good of chess..
I don't think anyone is saying women should have more titles offered BaronDerKilt. The argument was they should have the same title as the men. :)
But the titles are not equal, a WGM is not the same strength as a GM, or a GM who happens to be a woman.
nah, I don't think so cena_warrior... about women in other parts seeing chess like war and women not liking war (that part is true).... I think it boils down to exposure, a competitive spirit, and enjoying an intellectual game... I can't see how ANYONE male or female who is given the opportunity to be taught this game cannot fall in love with it.... it's intriguing, challenging, fascinating, tough, surprising, frustrating, magnificent, clever.... overall, just a beautiful game!
re: Judith Polgar fighting for and possibly winning the World Championship. I don't know if this will make a huge difference to women playing chess UNLESS it is publicised enough, given much media coverage.
Well men don't like war either...chess is nothing like war.
The rating requirement to be WGM is 2300 FIDE I believe and for GM its 2500 . For males 2300 FIDE is required just to be FM ! Male IMs must be 2400 , so most male IMs and many FMs are stronger than the WGMs. FIDE also has affirmative action titles as well which further undermine the worth of their titles...... its sad really.
The rating requirement to be WGM is 2300 FIDE I believe and for GM its 2500 . For males 2300 FIDE is required just to be FM ! Male IMs must be 2400 , so most male IMs and many FMs are stronger than the WGMs. FIDE also has affirmative action titles as well which further undermine the worth of their titles...... its sad really.
Get out of here....affirmative action titles? That is nuts.
Judit got as high as #8 in the world. That's Super GM level.