Will computers ever solve chess?

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Avatar of LawAndOrderKeeng
troy7915 wrote:
Complainer wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:

empathy is natural to most. Even dogs usually have this. Not so sure about cats...

 

 Ah, no. I don’t want empathy, that is still a small affair, traceable to still being selfish. Someone else suffers and I put myself in their shoes. Then I feel the suffering but only because it’s about me. I suffer, in their shoes: it’s still me, me, me. Self-pity, disguised as something other than pity for oneself.

This is total BS.

 

  Of course, a vulgar, insensitive old brain cannot see the deception involved in the so-called empathy. The ego cannot see that it touches every action one undertakes, including ‘ watching others suffer’. 

 As long you’re not free of the ego, old man, you must remain blind.

this is also total BS

 

 Apart from the consistent vulgarity( which indicates frustration), the fact remains: you are not free of the ego.

Chess is a sport!

 

  Haha! Good change of subject.

I was trying to deescalate the situation.

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

Not fighting others is not enough. 

Not fighting yourself is the key to not fighting others. That is a good place to begin. And what are we fighting others for anyway? A few ideas we get ourselves attached to? 

"what are we fighting others for anyway"

I guess generally people want others to agree with them / the world to change for them.

So, you know, a person will decide everyone else is wrong, or that the world is crazy (not themselves), or simplify issues to involve only the right side and the wrong side.

So yeah, it makes sense to focus on yourself, if only for practical reasons. Although sometimes the world is legitimately screwed up. Probably part of being realistic means to accept some level of suffering.

  Is there a separation between ‘the rest of the world’ and oneself? On the surface we are different: different likes, dislikes, passions, opinions.

  But if one gets deeper into oneself there are no differences at all. Which means what?

Now that's interesting. Hmm.

I guess you mean to change the world you start with yourself... but still, the fact I am, or may be, thinking of myself as separate from the world. That would certainly be part of the problem and something I would fix by fixing myself. That's very interesting.

 

  Wanting to change the world is the wrong place to start. Why do I want to change the world? So I can feel good about myself: I’m an important person, I saved the world, me, me, me. Which is the very pattern that needs change. 

 

 I don’t want to change the world. I don’t even wantt to change myself. I just want to understand. That would be the right place to start. 

I think it's even more instinctual / selfish. I want to change the world so the world exists the way I want it to. So that I have no conflicts with it.

Even if it's someone wants to, let's say, feed the starving children. Where does that come from? The person doesn't like living in a world with starving children. Sure it helps others, but it starts with the self. That's partly why I wasn't so interested in that conclusion, so I'm glad you were going that direction with it.

 

 ‘ I don’t want to have conflicts with the world.’ 

 

 That is already introducing a separation which creates conflicts no matter what. And again, it’s this obsession with myself and my desires: me, me, me. I want this, I don’t want that. It’s a universal pattern. 

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Hmm, maybe you logged off for now.

Well it was a fun conversation, you should post in the forums more often 

 

 Fun is the last thing I want from a convo.

Fun for me is talking to someone who both disagrees with me and makes good points. I get to think and learn. Either one by itself is fun, but both together is great

 

 I meant it’s not that fun when people die in war zones because we haven’t solved our problems, desire for power, greed, nationalism, all that. It’s very serious. But you seem to be concerned with what everything makes you feel like, how something effects YOU. Fun is part of that trend: me, me, me.

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi

I mean, they probably don't think "I don't want conflicts" it's just an instinct.

Although unless you're talking about some kind of collective consciousness thing, I'm not sure how you escape that the mind is a separate entity.

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Hmm, maybe you logged off for now.

Well it was a fun conversation, you should post in the forums more often 

 

 Fun is the last thing I want from a convo.

Fun for me is talking to someone who both disagrees with me and makes good points. I get to think and learn. Either one by itself is fun, but both together is great

 

 I meant it’s not that fun when people die in war zones because we haven’t solved our problems, desire for power, greed, nationalism, all that. It’s very serious. But you seem to be concerned with what everything makes you feel, how something effects YOU. Fun is part of that trend: me, me, me.

Good point.

Avatar of troy7915
Complainer wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Complainer wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
ponz111 wrote:

empathy is natural to most. Even dogs usually have this. Not so sure about cats...

 

 Ah, no. I don’t want empathy, that is still a small affair, traceable to still being selfish. Someone else suffers and I put myself in their shoes. Then I feel the suffering but only because it’s about me. I suffer, in their shoes: it’s still me, me, me. Self-pity, disguised as something other than pity for oneself.

This is total BS.

 

  Of course, a vulgar, insensitive old brain cannot see the deception involved in the so-called empathy. The ego cannot see that it touches every action one undertakes, including ‘ watching others suffer’. 

 As long you’re not free of the ego, old man, you must remain blind.

this is also total BS

 

 Apart from the consistent vulgarity( which indicates frustration), the fact remains: you are not free of the ego.

Chess is a sport!

 

  Haha! Good change of subject.

I was trying to deescalate the situation.

 

  Let it escalate! Ponz needs a shock, and even that it may have no effect, because people respond to crises according to their old patterns, so that nothing new can happen. But you never know. 

Avatar of troy7915
Complainer wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Complainer wrote:
btickler wrote:
Complainer wrote:
btickler wrote:
Complainer wrote:

Wooooow btickler tries to change the world trying to fight fake news wooow impressive! clap clap clap haaaaaa how about stop spreading BS yourself. You should wipe your mouth because it is brown from the sheet you're talking about.

Smositional here is a perfect example of the kind of lowbrow malice I am talking about.  

Hey btickler, why is your mouth so brown? HAHAHAHAHA

Do you somehow believe that these exchanges make *me* look bad?  Get thee to chesskids.com.

Of course, btickler. I totally destroyed you. 

 

 Ah, so that was the motive. I wonder if one realizes what has been destroyed: a few images and opinions? That’s not much...

SHOCKING

 It should be shocking, this desire to destroy another fellow human being. 

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

I mean, they probably don't think "I don't want conflicts" it's just an instinct.

Although unless you're talking about some kind of collective consciousness thing, I'm not sure how you escape that the mind is a separate entity.

 

 

  Haha! Perhaps the ‘perception’ that the mind is separate is an escape!

Avatar of troy7915

To 8160: They must be said and not left for second-guessing.

 

 Why is one who is not interested in all this even reading it? Just ignore what you’re not interested in. Respond only to what is of interest to you, not out of compulsion.

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

I mean, they probably don't think "I don't want conflicts" it's just an instinct.

Although unless you're talking about some kind of collective consciousness thing, I'm not sure how you escape that the mind is a separate entity.

 

 

  Haha! Perhaps the ‘perception’ that the mind is separate is an escape!

It's been known for quite a while that the seat of the mind is the brain... and our brain is in our skull, so...

Also, modern medicine / neuroscience say hi.

Avatar of troy7915

To 8162: But the brain of most people develop the same general patterns.

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
troy7915 wrote:

To 8162: But the brain of most people develop the same general patterns.

Ok.

I mean, most leaves look the same. Grass. Flowers.

My heart pumps blood the way yours does, the way billions do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
ilovesmetuna wrote:

watch him say all gods are inventions of thought.

Well... yeah. Of course tongue.png

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
s23bog wrote:

Troy prefers to paint by dumping the paint on the floor and mopping the floor with your head.

Yeah, he asks more questions than he makes statements. Which is fine so long as I find the colors on the floor interesting grin.png

Avatar of Preggo_Basashi
ilovesmetuna wrote:

pregs, you should be ashamed of yourself, entertaining that tosser.

He's the one entertaining me heh.

But if it's an endless loop of making very broad non specific statements, then poking holes at anyone who tries to get specific, then it wont be entertaining forever.

Avatar of cobra91
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

Not fighting others is not enough. 

Not fighting yourself is the key to not fighting others. That is a good place to begin. And what are we fighting others for anyway? A few ideas we get ourselves attached to? 

"what are we fighting others for anyway"

I guess generally people want others to agree with them / the world to change for them.

So, you know, a person will decide everyone else is wrong, or that the world is crazy (not themselves), or simplify issues to involve only the right side and the wrong side.

So yeah, it makes sense to focus on yourself, if only for practical reasons. Although sometimes the world is legitimately screwed up. Probably part of being realistic means to accept some level of suffering.

  Is there a separation between ‘the rest of the world’ and oneself? On the surface we are different: different likes, dislikes, passions, opinions.

  But if one gets deeper into oneself there are no differences at all. Which means what?

Now that's interesting. Hmm.

I guess you mean to change the world you start with yourself... but still, the fact I am, or may be, thinking of myself as separate from the world. That would certainly be part of the problem and something I would fix by fixing myself. That's very interesting.

 

  Wanting to change the world is the wrong place to start. Why do I want to change the world? So I can feel good about myself: I’m an important person, I saved the world, me, me, me. Which is the very pattern that needs change. 

 

 I don’t want to change the world. I don’t even wantt to change myself. I just want to understand. That would be the right place to start. 

I think it's even more instinctual / selfish. I want to change the world so the world exists the way I want it to. So that I have no conflicts with it.

Even if it's someone wants to, let's say, feed the starving children. Where does that come from? The person doesn't like living in a world with starving children. Sure it helps others, but it starts with the self. That's partly why I wasn't so interested in that conclusion, so I'm glad you were going that direction with it.

Here, you are both committing a basic logical fallacy known as begging the question. You (plural) claim that every human action is selfish, because humans always act based solely upon what they want. The problem is that the premise (people always act based solely on what they want) effectively assumes the conclusion (everything people do is selfish), so no one who disagrees with your conclusion is going to accept your premise without further justification.

Btw, this conversation is so long, so fast-moving, and so off-topic that I really think it needs to be moved to a separate location. You guys are completely burying all of the on-topic posts under a sea of unrelated material, and I don't really think that is fair to those who may want to discuss the prospect of computers eventually solving chess.

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

To 8162: But the brain of most people develop the same general patterns.

Ok.

I mean, most leaves look the same. Grass. Flowers.

My heart pumps blood the way yours does, the way billions do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

 I’m talking about the patterns of fear, attachment, belief, greed, control—patterns which shape our lives the most.

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
s23bog wrote:

Troy prefers to paint by dumping the paint on the floor and mopping the floor with your head.

Yeah, he asks more questions than he makes statements. Which is fine so long as I find the colors on the floor interesting

 

  When one finds an answer for themselves it’s quite different than if they get it from another, even when they agree with the answer 100%.

Avatar of troy7915
ilovesmetuna wrote:

who do you reckon has the bigger god-complex ? troy or elroch ? watch him say all gods are inventions of thought.

 

 It depends what you mean by the word ‘god’.

Avatar of troy7915
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
ilovesmetuna wrote:

pregs, you should be ashamed of yourself, entertaining that tosser.

He's the one entertaining me heh.

But if it's an endless loop of making very broad non specific statements, then poking holes at anyone who tries to get specific, then it wont be entertaining forever.

 

  We will narrow it down as we move along.