winning with no material

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Avatar of simp
Maybeeclint wrote:

 

Maybe since a series of blunders like this allows a check mate, it only auto-draws on the offer if one of the knights is taken.

 A series of blunders, lol

Avatar of KyleJRM
skogli wrote:

I don't belive that this is the official rule, this must be a chess.com rule.


I'm afraid that *is* the official rule. A game is drawn when the player who runs out of time cannot checkmate by *any* sequence of legal moves. Any legal sequence that could lead to checkmate, even if it would be suicide for one player, means the player can win on time.

 

 

>DanMcClintic wrote:

So it would have been a draw if the losing side sacs his knight? because the winning side wouldn't have sufficent material? 


Correct.

 

Avatar of KyleJRM
simp wrote:

I am starting to get the feeling I am playing a bunch of computer users from some of the answers I have received.


No need to talk like that. Personally, I would have given you the draw. But also personally, I don't play blitz or without an increment precisely to avoid games like this.

Avatar of dunce

The position in post #10 is illegal. Both Kings are in check.

Avatar of KyleJRM
dunce wrote:

The position in post #10 is illegal. Both Kings are in check.


Good point! That was careless, the winning king should obviously be on the seventh rank and not the 8th.

Avatar of simp
KyleJRM wrote:
simp wrote:

I am starting to get the feeling I am playing a bunch of computer users from some of the answers I have received.


No need to talk like that. Personally, I would have given you the draw. But also personally, I don't play blitz or without an increment precisely to avoid games like this.


I have never been to a seen 2 human beings not draw with this situation in all the years I have played chess except this instance. I am not asking for anything , if it isn't a draw it isn't a draw . but it is a draw its just not a draw here
Also, you keep saying it is Blitz chess. Blitz chess is 3 to 5 minutes each

This was a 15 minute game

That is considered rapid chess
I really really really don't care about any points on a chess server .It just made me wonder what kind of person was on the other side of the screen . And it's just another thing in the list of reasons why I need to quit playing chess.
 

Avatar of simp

Thanks to everyone who made an intelligent answer or at least tried. To those of you who had no idea what was going on and just wanted to pile on . Good luck in the future, you will need it.

Avatar of KyleJRM

If you can't get to a legal draw before your time expires, this is not a draw *anywhere*. If you played this game in a rated tournament and the exact same set of events transpired, you would have been given the loss there as well

Everyone has their own threshold for what counts as a valid "time" win. I won't begrudge another person having a different standard than I do, and act like they have some sort of moral failing.

And don't take this the wrong way, but if you had known the rules correctly and not spammed your opponent with draw offers but just made your moves, it sounds like you had plenty of time to get to a legal draw.

Avatar of DanMcClintic

As a tournament director if this occured over the board I would have awarded the draw unless of course the king was in the corner about to be mated, otherwise there is no way to force the win, this would fall under insufficent losing chances which can be claimed if no increment or delay is being used, if increment or delay is being used, I would allow the players to finish out the game to the rightful conclusion of a draw.

Avatar of KyleJRM
Fezzik wrote:

K+N vs K+N is insufficient material to force mate. If either side claims a draw, the draw must be declared.

If either side runs out of time before a correct draw claim can be made, then the game is determined by whether it's possible to lose with the worst possible play.

The site should automatically give a draw regardless of the amount of time left, if the player makes a correct claim.


If we're going by that rule, does he have to call an arbiter over to make the claim? :)

Avatar of KyleJRM
Fezzik wrote:

Any TD/arbiter would, Dan. FIDE rule 10.2.a addresses quick-play finishes and is directly pertinent:

10.2

   

a.

If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.


That rule does not apply to blitz, and I think most of the answers given here assumed that was what he was playing. Since 15-minute is technically rapid, I guess that rule should have applied.

Avatar of skogli

If this is a blitz/bullet rule, blitz/bullet is to stupid to be played... Drop moving the pices at all just bang the clock as fast as you can, and online people could bang the mouse instead, when time is up you have lost the "game"

Avatar of KyleJRM

I could be misreading this, but I think you ellipsized out the important parts.

Blitz rule B.3b says the following:

"Article 10.2 and Appendix A.4.c do not apply."

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=125&view=article

The rule you have highlighted in red, about winning by normal means, is part of that article 10.2, which Blitz rule B.3b says does not apply.

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

Avatar of Rogalentis

i'm sorry but you are stupid for thinking 2 knights can't declare checkmate.

Avatar of TheOldReb

Maybe you should tell your mama !?  Undecided

Avatar of heinzie

I'd be quite annoyed if the position was declared a dead draw immediately after QxR+ QxQ+ KxQ here:

Avatar of guptesumedh

N & K vs K is a draw due to insufficient material,but N & K vs N & K is not a draw because as shown in post 9, one's own knight can help opponent to checkmate.

Avatar of guptesumedh

I read till 33rd post. should've read everything...

thanks for correcting!

Avatar of KyleJRM
Fezzik wrote:

Gupte's comment is going to continue the misinformation if ppl don't look at post #38, which gives chapter and verse on why such positions are drawn as long as both sides have time. Gupte is only correct if no draw claim has been made while both sides have time.


 

I get it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain!

Avatar of ringwraith10
get_lost wrote:

Use premoves, or sack your knight to draw. The main concern is in KB vs KQ where KQ timeouts, should be draw, yet KB wins. Chess.com Bug.


i had that happen to me before....

it sucked