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Game won on time, server says drawn

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hence_erstwhile

Hi,

I just played a game in which I clearly won on time, but the message claimed the game was drawn on insufficient material. I had a knight, my opponent had a rook and two pawns when my opponent's clock ran down. Any way I can get my rating adjusted? I took a screenshot if this is helpful.

timbites

If you win on time and you do not have enough material to checkmate, then the game is drawn.

aakash756

there is a rule that says someone has if one min or less but they have more than 70-80% of winning that person can declare a draw

timbites

How would you tell if you had 70 to 80 percent?

StormieEDC

I just played an obviously won blitz game where I (Black) had a Queen and the opponate had nothing. But I ran out of time because silly, stressed-out me forgot how to mate with a Queen. Whoops! :P

Anyway, I was so relieved to see that I got a draw and not a loss; although I didn't understand why.

KnightDwarf

tootsierooler this is becuase your opponent only has a king and therefore cannot mate you no matter what happens, even if you blunder your queen there will just be two kings on the board resulting in a dead draw.

Tjornan

When ever the time runs out the time winner is given the best possible result. In the case where you have material that you can mate with (even just a pawn) you are given the win. If you cannot mate then you are given a draw.

Although would it give you a win if your opponent could helpmate himself?

rooperi
aakash756 wrote:

there is a rule that says someone has if one min or less but they have more than 70-80% of winning that person can declare a draw

This is just nonsense....

The game in question should not be a draw, there are sequences of (admittedly bad) moves that can cause Black to win.

[edit] Tjornan's point above:

There definitely are helpmates in the game, should have been a win for black

aakash756
aakash756 wrote:

there is a rule that says someone has if one min or less but they have more than 70-80% of winning that person can declare a draw

thats a rule in tormanaments

heinzie

And how exactly does one calculate this percentage?

heinzie

On-topic, it does seem hence_erstwhile was robbed from a well-earned half point, but maybe it's a rule here that if you have only a knight or bishop left you cannot win anymore (which is not true in case the opponent still has a pawn)

Tjornan

are there helpmates though? I'm not sure. The question is can he work himself into a helpmate without moving into check/ passing a turn. Maybe a possible diagram where this is possible?

@aakash756

Is it really? and how do they decide if a person has a 70-80% of winning? Seems to me like that relies on too many unforseeable variables.

rooperi
Tjornan wrote:

are there helpmates though? I'm not sure. The question is can he work himself into a helpmate without moving into check/ passing a turn. Maybe a possible diagram where this is possible?



APawnCanDream
hence_erstwhile wrote:

Hi,

I just played a game in which I clearly won on time, but the message claimed the game was drawn on insufficient material. I had a knight, my opponent had a rook and two pawns when my opponent's clock ran down. Any way I can get my rating adjusted? I took a screenshot if this is helpful.

The game is declared a draw if you win on time but have no material that could force check mate. You can't force check mate with a king and knight alone, nor with a king and bishop, or even a king and two knights. Here is a link to what can and can't force check mates.

Because you couldn't force check mate with the material left you were awarded a forced draw, the best possible outcome you could achieve given the material left on the board. You were given the correct score and luckily your opponent's time ran out because it sounded like you were headed for a loss! :)

Hope that clears up the confusion for you, enjoy your future games!

rooperi
KingsEye wrote:
hence_erstwhile wrote:

Hi,

I just played a game in which I clearly won on time, but the message claimed the game was drawn on insufficient material. I had a knight, my opponent had a rook and two pawns when my opponent's clock ran down. Any way I can get my rating adjusted? I took a screenshot if this is helpful.

The game is declared a draw if you win on time but have no material that could force check mate. You can't force check mate with a king and knight alone, nor with a king and bishop, or even a king and two knights. Here is a link to what can and can't force check mates.

Because you couldn't force check mate with the material left, you were awarded a forced draw, which would be the best possible outcome you could achieve given the material left on the board. You were given the correct score, and luckily your opponent's time ran out because it sounded like you were headed for a loss! :)

Hope that clears up the confusion for you, enjoy your future games!

I respectfully disagree.

It's only a draw when a checkmate cannot be achieved by any series of legal moves.

Fide Rule 9.6

9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was legal.

heinzie

Yes it can become very technical :)

ajax333221
TootsieRoller wrote:

I just played an obviously won blitz game where I (Black) had a Queen and the opponate had nothing. But I ran out of time because silly, stressed-out me forgot how to mate with a Queen. Whoops! :P

Anyway, I was so relieved to see that I got a draw and not a loss; although I didn't understand why.

just move the queen drawing a box, make this box smaller until he only moves in a corner 2 squares, then bring the king.

This might not be the fastest (in moves) way, but it surely is the fastest (in time), it requieres no process of thinking at all :)

APawnCanDream
rooperi wrote:
KingsEye wrote:
hence_erstwhile wrote:

Hi,

I just played a game in which I clearly won on time, but the message claimed the game was drawn on insufficient material. I had a knight, my opponent had a rook and two pawns when my opponent's clock ran down. Any way I can get my rating adjusted? I took a screenshot if this is helpful.

The game is declared a draw if you win on time but have no material that could force check mate. You can't force check mate with a king and knight alone, nor with a king and bishop, or even a king and two knights. Here is a link to what can and can't force check mates.

Because you couldn't force check mate with the material left, you were awarded a forced draw, which would be the best possible outcome you could achieve given the material left on the board. You were given the correct score, and luckily your opponent's time ran out because it sounded like you were headed for a loss! :)

Hope that clears up the confusion for you, enjoy your future games!

I respectfully disagree.

It's only a draw when a checkmate cannot be achieved by any series of legal moves.

Fide Rule 9.6

9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was legal.

This may be so in OTB FIDE/USCF ect, but I believe my definition is correct for Chess.com (and I believe all chess playing web sites). Pretty sure as that is exactly what occured in the OP's game and the software only does as it's been programmed. The software can't detect (or hasn't been properly told to check) for possible help mates, only forced mates as far as I'm aware.

So that I know of, for online play (at least Chess.com and several other places I've played at), you must be able to force a checkmate in order to receive the full point if your opponent runs out of time, otherwise it's considered insufficient material to mate and your awarded a drawn result, or half a point.

Expertise87

USCF also rules this situation a draw by insufficient mating material.

APawnCanDream
Expertise87 wrote:

USCF also rules this situation a draw by insufficient mating material.

Thanks for the clarifying that! :)