Live Chess is brain dead

Some people disconnect.. thats why you dont automatically win..

I think the limit to get back in should be 5 minutes.  You shouldn't waste somebody's time like that.

the most you have to wait is 2 minutes - that shouldn't be too long to wait. either way, no worries, in LC3 you will be able to play multiple games at once.

also, it's not a coding issue or a mistake - it's a user experience issue. losing a game because your wireless internet hiccups is horrible. sure, occassionally waiting a few minutes for a game to end can be irritating, but we're going to fix this with multiple games in play and harsh punishments for those who lose their games by abandoning them all the time.

I disagree. It *is* a coding issue/mistake as well as a user experience issue. One can certainly detect the difference between a browser window close and a network disconnect. A browser window close is a discreet event: easy to detect. If your Live Chess system is not set up to handle window events then that is a software flaw.

In terms of user experience, if my opponent is losing and is a poor sport, and then closes their browser window abandoning the game, why should I be in the penalty box for 2 minutes (the time you say the timeout length is). If I close the window and try to play again within that time period, I am brought back to the abandoned game - so basically if my opponent abandons the game (rather than gracefully resigning) they disable me for two minutes. That is just bad GUI design/bad user experience. I assume you care about that. It is a really easy fix: just trap window close events - what is the big deal about that?

Anyway - Live Chess 2 is working better than it was (though I never had any issues with Live Chess 1 - and it was more feature complete).

two seperate comments:

i've raised the issue about the window close. you are correct about that. i believe we had left it the way it is for now while we were testing and have not yet changed it back to give you a popup warning that if you leave the page, you will resign. fair point and i am investigating.

second point: in the future you should feel free to be nice when making suggestions. most people generally respond more to positively spun constructive criticism than the same commentary delivered in a rude way - me included :)

so while i was a little offended by your delivery, i do appreciate you re-surfacing this issue.

Thin skin - I wasn't harshing on you or your site, and if you reread my comments you will see that that is the case. Indeed, you seemed to be glibly saying that a two minute wait "shouldn't be too long" - like a bad user experience is acceptable. Have you waited for two minutes on a dead game? I think you were just responding off the cuff/defensively.

I am a software designer (if lousy chess player) so I was trying to give some constructive feedback. I didn't sweeten it up. In reporting bugs and issues that is not usually required (except with a client). It's not personal Sonny, it's just business... ;-)

I have, at times, had to close my windows because an important phone call came in.  LC2 is a big step forward.  But if you notice, it is still Beta!

I am with Erik on this one.  Politeness is critical.  Suggestions should be suggestions.  Declarations tend to be taken wrong.  I have my fair share of programming experience.  I have been constructively critical of Chess.com in the past.  But hopefully my tone and demeanor was constructive.

A suggestion for LC3 would be a nice thing.  I have found Erik and his staff to be nothing but helpful when I have had problems.

Now admittedly, I really do not play live chess.  Perhaps I will in the future.  I find it fast and very trap oriented.  But longer games are more like OTB tournaments and have potential in my humble opinion.

I will be happy when we can have a Saturday or Sunday tournament (Swiss and other formats perhaps) in Long (e.g. 45 minute) live chess.

They way Chess.com is working at the moment, there is little doubt it will become the best on the internet.   I think that is why Erik gets asked on the live TV broadcasts if Chess.com will go public.  People may want to invest.

And even at that Erik found good in your post and thanked you for bringing up the idea and also gave us a hint about Live Chess 3.

Jim

in your original post you didn't seperate out the difference between closing the browser and disconnect by other means. we can (and should) make it a forfeit on browser close, but there are plenty of ways around that (unplug internet, shutdown process, turn off computer). in those cases you will have to wait two minutes because yes, i think that is better than an immediate loss.

i'll bite my tongue in response to your "thin skin" comment :)

Sigh... are we to quibble? I like your site. If I met you I would probably like you (and hopefully you me ;-). That aside, in my initial post I was just giving "raw" user experience: frustration over a particular GUI experience (that was: network disconnect or game abandoned- completely unclear??). In my software dev experience we pay people for that sort of feedback, we don't chide them because it is not sweet or as sweet as we would like.

So to sum up - I was saying that a window close event should be detected as "game abandoned", distinct from a network disconnect Issue (resulting from the myriad reasons you cite). You said window event trapping should be in there but isn't yet.

Ok. We are done.

The popup is a necessity, because an errant mouse could otherwise forfeit you.

would popup blocking software inadvertantly stop those important messages? I'd hate to accidently close the wrong window or tab and have the blocker just dump the alert and chess.com happily kill my game.

Erik, I'm not sure I understand how being able to play multiple games helps the situation. If I'm playing and my opponent disconnects the ability to play multiple games allows me to start a game with another player right away. But what happens when my first opponent comes back online? Am I now playing in both games? That puts me at a significant disadvantage.

Can games be immediately stored upon disconnect without waiting the 2 minutes? And be resumed at any later time? There is potential for abuse here, but limiting the number of stored games for each user can curb most of that. Submission to computer adjudication for stored games older than a specific period is also possible.

we are certainly NOT going to be adjourning and adjudicating games. that is a nightmare worse than the problem.

you can choose to wait 2 minutes, or to start a new game with the possibility of playing 2 games. your choice :)

The title of your post refers to the site as brain dead.

The body of your post refers to the site policies as silly and stupid.

When you get feedback from your customers, is this the kind of language you prefer them to use to describe your work?

leave it alone and let it die we have all been in that place where a play disconnects.and there will always be sore lossers.a realy is two mins a long time. gives the kettle time to boil.so lets give chess.com a big hand and tell them thier doing a great job.thanks for reading dave05

I see this in some of my games where the person just leaves (probably phone call or something) if you do this in a 30 minute game and just sit out and don't do a move the person waiting will probably just leave and resign while the person not doing anything will win for doing nothing. Can you please change this so if you don't make your move in a set in time you automatically resign? 

Brain dead...silly and stupid...

That is your idea of constructive criticism?

I wonder what you offer when not being constructive...

Possible ways to kill 2 - 15 minutes if your opponent lets the clock run down:

go to the fridge for a soda -1 minute

go to the bathroom -1 minute

that people in the room with you, you know your family? How about telling them you love them, so they wont think you're spending too much time playing chess & ignoring them. 1-3 minutes

feed your goldfish before they go belly up -1 minute

clean the pile of dishes in the sink BEFORE the roaches gather -3 minutes

check your email -1 minute

say hello to people in the chat room 1-2 minutes

take a few practice putting shots (since you're indoors, driving is not recommended) -2 minutes

kill that big spider in the corner HURRY! -1 minute

take out the garbage -2 minutes

Open a book and read at least 1 page (you know read? The thing we used to do before this internet thing) -1 minute

get up, walk around the room, GET SOME EXCERSISE! -2 minutes

go to the forums & read silly posts by people...oops ignore that one

anyway.... that's a possible 20 minutes of time killers...so STOP COMPLAINING

I think youre missing the point Danielle...Sitting for 8 minutes and playiing is ok...but sitting and not playing for 2 minutes is not ok.  I know...the logic makes no sense but that is what he is saying.  What has happened to this world where we are in such a hurry we cant just slow down and enjoy life????

Like you posted...read something while youre waiting.  Read??? Book??? what is this reading and books you speak of?

Great post, Dani!