Of course, Black does not have to co-operate.
Explanation Of Triangulation
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Yes Rooperi, as it is not forced, but what if white plays c4 on the 2nd move in your diagram? You showed a cool double triangulation, with white moving in a clockwise triangle motion and black moving in a counterclockwise triangle motion.
Rooperi,
In your diagram what happens if white plays c4(see above post)?
I think after bxc4 Black can draw?
Rooperi, you are correct. The initial position is a draw, as can be seen at http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en
According to Chess.com's "Endgame Workout" this position is not a draw but a
win for white.
However, in Chess.com's example all the pieces are forward exactly two ranks,
so I wonder if that makes a difference?
rooperi wrote:
I think after bxc4 Black can draw?
Absolutly wrong bec. black can't reach the key square in the whole game witch is c4 . The idea is why black cant draw this because he never reaches the pawn so he can eat it . And for the knowledge of new end game players . The rooks pawn (both sides) , Bishops pawns (both sides) are always drawn as long as the opposite king can reach the queening square. But the Kings , Queens , Knights pawns (both) are always winning even if the king get to the queening square. White (or black king depends on the situation , who has the pawn) can always kick the opposite king out and control the key square of winning.
Of course it's a draw. It's not Black who needs critical squares, but White.
It's the same if White tries c4 on the first move
zankfrappa wrote:
According to Chess.com's "Endgame Workout" this position is not a draw but a
win for white.
However, in Chess.com's example all the pieces are forward exactly two ranks,
so I wonder if that makes a difference?
"this" position is which position??... how about giving a diagram... are you talking about the OPs position or after bxc4 or what?
thinkinghead wrote:
rooperi wrote:
I think after bxc4 Black can draw?
Absolutly wrong bec. black can't reach the key square in the whole game witch is c4 . The idea is why black cant draw this because he never reaches the pawn so he can eat it . And for the knowledge of new end game players . The rooks pawn (both sides) , Bishops pawns (both sides) are always drawn as long as the opposite king can reach the queening square. But the Kings , Queens , Knights pawns (both) are always winning even if the king get to the queening square. White (or black king depends on the situation , who has the pawn) can always kick the opposite king out and control the key square of winning.
Ummm... thinkhead's post is sort of tough to parse... but, well, it's bad form to declare something absolutely wrong, when actually, it's right.
After bxc4 Kc3 Kc6 Black controls the opposition and can hold draw.
zankfrappa wrote:
According to Chess.com's "Endgame Workout" this position is not a draw but a
win for white.
However, in Chess.com's example all the pieces are forward exactly two ranks,
so I wonder if that makes a difference?
Yes, moving the position in the OP up 2 ranks makes a gigantic difference. imo that win is quite difficult to find; I had to consult Fritz 8 because I had no idea!
Thanks for the clear demonstration.
Feb 24, 2022
0
#17
khpa21 wrote:
zankfrappa wrote:
According to Chess.com's "Endgame Workout" this position is not a draw but a
win for white.
However, in Chess.com's example all the pieces are forward exactly two ranks,
so I wonder if that makes a difference?
Yes, moving the position in the OP up 2 ranks makes a gigantic difference. imo that win is quite difficult to find; I had to consult Fritz 8 because I had no idea!
Nice demonstration khpa21
Why is it so valuable?
Can you spot the major factor between the position of the pieces at the start and the end of the puzzle?
In what shaped pattern did white's king move?