Archaic71 wrote:
No need to apologize to tryst, he knows exactly what he is doing - baiting us.
She, meaning I, am not "baiting" anyone.
Bobby Fischer body to be Exhumed
Sort:
Archaic71 wrote:
No need to apologize to tryst, he knows exactly what he is doing - baiting us.
Yeah, I know
, but he is a she and I love being baited, especially because I hope I've earned a free dry martini from her next time I'm visiting Ann Arbor
Phobetrix wrote:
trysts wrote:
Phobetrix wrote:
Look trysts, much of what I am going to say really does depend on how you define culture (hence, the question about that earlier here was not only a joke). The foundations of a great many of the old cultures (all?) depend and rely on myth and folklore. Those ARE part of the culture! Sure, much of their details can be criticized, but the key parts remain. Nevertheless, it seems extremely unlikely (to me impossible) that they (in this case Jewish culture) have arisen only 100 years ago. There is, for example, enough literature from the Middle Ages about various aspects of Jewish culture to make the contention that it is only 100 years old outright ridiculous in my view (sorry ).
Well then, in this instance we have differing views on "culture". I say it is in one place, you say it's all over the place. I say the people who began the zionist movement can make a claim to "the jewish culture" if they wish, seeing how they set up a "jewish cultural center" in Palestine called Israel. You say the myths and legends are a part of a thread that people all over the world may claim to be a member of if they wish. Right?
I think we agree, and interestingly it all seems anyway to boil down to a different definition of "culture". Just to specify my view, I do not think the Zionist movement is anything more than a relatively small detail of what I would call Jewish culture, the latter being something VERY much older than ~100 years. And Jewish culture was the issue we discussed, right?
Yes. And I think that the claims the zionist movement made are the first real proposition claiming a "jewish culture".
sorry tryst, that was purely a joke!
trysts wrote:
Phobetrix wrote:
trysts wrote:
Phobetrix wrote:
Look trysts, much of what I am going to say really does depend on how you define culture (hence, the question about that earlier here was not only a joke). The foundations of a great many of the old cultures (all?) depend and rely on myth and folklore. Those ARE part of the culture! Sure, much of their details can be criticized, but the key parts remain. Nevertheless, it seems extremely unlikely (to me impossible) that they (in this case Jewish culture) have arisen only 100 years ago. There is, for example, enough literature from the Middle Ages about various aspects of Jewish culture to make the contention that it is only 100 years old outright ridiculous in my view (sorry ).
Well then, in this instance we have differing views on "culture". I say it is in one place, you say it's all over the place. I say the people who began the zionist movement can make a claim to "the jewish culture" if they wish, seeing how they set up a "jewish cultural center" in Palestine called Israel. You say the myths and legends are a part of a thread that people all over the world may claim to be a member of if they wish. Right?
I think we agree, and interestingly it all seems anyway to boil down to a different definition of "culture". Just to specify my view, I do not think the Zionist movement is anything more than a relatively small detail of what I would call Jewish culture, the latter being something VERY much older than ~100 years. And Jewish culture was the issue we discussed, right?
Yes. And I think that the claims the zionist movement made are the first real proposition claiming a "jewish culture".
I think it should be VERY clear by now that we strongly disagree on that point!
Phobetrix wrote:
Archaic71 wrote:
No need to apologize to tryst, he knows exactly what he is doing - baiting us.
Yeah, I know, but he is a she and I love being baited, especially because I hope I've earned a free dry martini from her next time I'm visiting Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor is where I am from, not where I live. But I am going to make you a martini now... and drink it. If you don't mind?
Phobetrix wrote:
trysts wrote:
And I think that the claims the zionist movement made are the first real proposition claiming a "jewish culture".
I think it should be VERY clear by now that we strongly disagree on that point!
Not so strong with me. But it is clear we disagree.
trysts wrote:
Phobetrix wrote:
Archaic71 wrote:
No need to apologize to tryst, he knows exactly what he is doing - baiting us.
Yeah, I know, but he is a she and I love being baited, especially because I hope I've earned a free dry martini from her next time I'm visiting Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor is where I am from, not where I live. But I am going to make you a martini now... and drink it. If you don't mind?
Ohhhh, but I do mind! At least, wait until I'm there (and make it shaken, not stirred)
For the record, this is how I like discussions here at chess.com - differences in opinions, sometimes fundamental - but with humor and appreciation of the opponent's thoughts.
Thanks trysts & cheers!
I think Paul Morphy, the chess genius from New Orleans, also went off the deep end. Need to check that. I wonder if some there is some mental mechanism that enhances chess play, but negatively affects mental status.
In general, genius is a risk factor for instability.
Tonydal -- is that a novel, nonfiction?
trysts wrote: Fischer actually said the jews should be rounded up and murdered. He didn't make it easy to merely think he had an eccentric point of view, or a point of view that is misunderstood. He said to round them up and murder them.
Still think Fischer was misunderstood on this one. Being Jewish himself, I hardly think that was his true sentiment. He was inclined to be very manic and animated in his remarks (maybe this was his only true fault?) and sometimes made sarcastic comments simply for the shock value, and because he knew that the media was stupid enough to reprint and sensationalize them. Like any other person who competed at his level, he tended to regard the world at-large with contempt - we're all just not smart enough to get the joke, at least in Bobby's eyes. Even the people closest to him have agreed with that assessment. I've had Chess-playing buddies that were very much like him too. Many abnormally-intelligent, but otherwise "normal" people have had a morbid curiosity with taboo subjects, and sometimes attempt to understand them in a humorous light, while the rest of us just blanch at their so-called jokes.
I think it was his big mouth and warped sense of humor that got him into trouble - not any real animosity towards Jews.
trysts wrote: ...Until the zionist movement began, there was no jewish culture. There were people who believed in that religion and they were all over the world.
Except that the Bible predates the Zionist movement, and a great deal of the Bible (the stuff most of us don't read because it's boring) details the customs of the Jewish people. Even the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad refered to the Jewish culture, as early as the 8th century. Anti-semitism once encompassed hatred of anyone from that part of the world, whether they were Jew, Moslem, Christian or any other religion. It was only after the formation of Israel that it took on its more-modern connotation.
hartofgold wrote:
Tonydal -- is that a novel, nonfiction?
A short story. You can find a couple short passages on google books.
It is in The Ghost Light, by the same many-award-winning author.
Leiber was a keen player, having won, as I recall, the Santa Monica Open in 1966. USCF Expert.
Chess games by Robert James "Bobby" Fischer
so greedy!!!
funny that everybody says he was nutty..... the media sure has everyone brainwashed. they make fischer appear to look and sound nutty only after he won yugoslavia and all those who are brainwashed buys into it and agrees with it, if anyone thinks the media never lies ur brainwashed .....
what about fischer wasnutty???? its nutty that the united states says ur not allowed to play,just cause ur playing in ussr. that my friends is a form of communism in and of itself. god bless the united states corporation and all its brainwashed inhabitants . fischer wins the world again so we can make him look bad and ruin his life.
if thats not communism then define it for me.! please
Look trysts, much of what I am going to say really does depend on how you define culture (hence, the question about that earlier here was not only a joke). The foundations of a great many of the old cultures (all?) depend and rely on myth and folklore. Those ARE part of the culture! Sure, much of their details can be criticized, but the key parts remain. Nevertheless, it seems extremely unlikely (to me impossible) that they (in this case Jewish culture) have arisen only 100 years ago. There is, for example, enough literature from the Middle Ages about various aspects of Jewish culture to make the contention that it is only 100 years old outright ridiculous in my view (sorry ).
Well then, in this instance we have differing views on "culture". I say it is in one place, you say it's all over the place. I say the people who began the zionist movement can make a claim to "the jewish culture" if they wish, seeing how they set up a "jewish cultural center" in Palestine called Israel. You say the myths and legends are a part of a thread that people all over the world may claim to be a member of if they wish. Right?
I think we agree, and interestingly it all seems anyway to boil down to a different definition of "culture"
. Just to specify my view, I do not think the Zionist movement is anything more than a relatively small detail of what I would call Jewish culture, the latter being something VERY much older than ~100 years. And Jewish culture was the issue we discussed, right?