Black Repertoire Question

As a new player (had a long layoff, let's say now at 1400 in case it matters) without any repertoire, I started off with the repertoire in 'Chess Openings for Black, Explained'.  That is based on the Accelerated Dragon, Nimzo/Bogo Indian, and a variety of misc similiarly related things for about any other white possibility.

However, when white plays something other than e4 or queens gambit, i find i have to look up in the book what to play (even for queens gambit as nimzo/bogo are somewhat involved).  (I'm talking about the first 5 moves).  Instead i'd like a simpler initial repertoire.

I was thinking about the Scandinavian for 1. e4, and the Slav against everything else (like what Andrew Martin recommended as a minimal approach).  My question/concern/comments:

  - in the scandinavian, it seems whites choices can turn things into a french defense.  Not sure how much knowledge of the French (or other openings) is necessary.?.  (should i stay with the Accel Dragon?)

  - I like the thought of using the same opening against everything else (everything besides 1 e4).  In that case, would the Slav be the way to go?  Or the semi-slave?  (I know the King's indian is another choice, any others?)  (Is the King's indian 'harder' to get started with than the Slav/semi-slav?)

Thanks.

Firstly, the fact that your opponents often don't follow theory until move 4 or so in your repertoire is probably a sign that you don't need to know opening theory at your level. It's very unlikely to have any influence on your results.

That said; how can White force a Scandinavian to become a French? If you're referring to 1.e4 d5 2.d4, then Black doesn't have to play 2...e6. 2...dxe4 wins a pawn, although White might know enough to turn this into a Blackmar-Diemer gambit with 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3. But then, that's not lethal, and 1.e4 players aren't likely to know the Blackmar-Diemer. Also, 2...c6 is a Caro-Kann, and 2...Nc6 is a Nimzowitsch defence. I'd go for 2...dxe4.

You can only play the accelerated dragon if White plays the Open Sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4). In my experience, below 2000 level that is relatively rare. Other lines are theoretically fine, but diverse and not necessarily simple.

I am suspicious of the idea of "using the same opening against everything else", because really it only seems that way. 1.c4 c6 really isn't a Slav, it could become one if White wants to, but he has other options (like 2.e4, which is pretty dangerous). Same for 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c6, et cetera.

Also, in my opinion, the Semi-Slav is a counter attacking option against White's d4, c4, Nf3, Nc3 setup, based on threatening to sometimes take pawn c4 and keep it, and sometimes taking it and playing ...b5 after White's Bxc4. If White has played other moves, like he hasn't played d4 yet, or has played e3 earlier, the same ideas as in the Semi-Slav don't work.

That said, I don't have a simple recipe against c4, Nf3 and all the other stuff either.

fionn5, When you say white can turn the Scandinavian into a French, do you mean 1 e4 d5 2 e5?  In that case play 2...Bf5 and it is not a French.  I like your and Andrew Martin's idea to play Scandinavian and Slav.  That's how I started.  The Scandinavian is simple to play.

Thanks for the lengthy reply - maybe I am being simplistic.

I have been playing the silician recently, implementing as close to a accel dragon as possible (actually hyper accel dragon).

I was wondering if I could do something simliar with the Slav, try to get something as close as possible (from any non 1 e4 move) - if not always identical then if close i can re-use similiar strategies.?.

Yes, I was thinking about 1 e4 d5 2 e5

Yes, i see what you mean  (2 ...  Bf5) - I like that move!

Thanks, I'll take a look at that book.

I think the book will help alot with getting some understanding about the different pawn structures for different openings.  Is that a major step in deciding on a opening repertoire, or would someone really need to tryout various different opening pawn structures in actual games to really get a feeling for how the differences play out?

Those openings books are so misleading. They show off a particular opening for White and demonstrate how White is outplaying Black on every move no matter what choices he makes. Or they show off Black and how this particular defense is rock solid against anything White tries to throw at it. It's all a myth.

I agree. In Seirawan's Winning Chess Openings (which I'm not knocking, its a great book) he has a chapter called An Opening Solution. He displays the Barcza Opening (usually turns into the KIA) and goes on to demonstrate how no matter what black does white always has the advantage.

Yeah, right.

Anyway, the above posts are correct- the Scandinavian will not transpose into a French without a very odd move order. What it COULD do, rather annoyingly, is transpose into a Queen's Gambit, but with blacks c-pawn missing- after 2... Nf6, by the way, not Qxe5.

here

Some testing is welcome, just to check if you have a good feel for the opening.

However, the main test is if you understand the basic ideas associated with the opening you play.

If you plan on learning the scandinavian i suggest Modernes Scandinavisch by Matthias Wahls, wonderful book if you can find it in english (not sure if there is a non-german version)

I like the ideas with the Scandinavian and the Slav.  In the main line, Black gets into a Caro structure and has many of the same plans. 

Fried Fox

here's another way the Scandinavian can turn into the french.

pvmike, but the reason to not play the French isn't the exchange variation. Black should be happy in that line.

Can someone point me to where Andrew Martin recommends the Slav and Scandinavian as a minimalist rep?  Just curious and I'd like to read it.

Play 1..g6 against everything. :)

I highly recommend The Essential Center Counter by Andrew Martin (2004, Thinkers' Press, Davenport, IA, 142pp). This is an exceptionally well-organized, well-written, all-round  excellent introduction to the Center Counter aka the Scandinavian. As IM Martin says in his introduction,"The Essential Center Counter dispenses with stifling detail, concentrating only on the necessary information to get you up and running with this excellent opening. You'll see the latest games and plans discussed in a very user-friendly way. By the time you have finished you will have a repertoire in your hands to use as you see fit against anyone of any strength." Unlike some opening books, The Essential Center Counter does not disappoint.

Here is where I read Andrew Martin's suggestions:

http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/repert.htm

Thank you for the link.