Catalan

I am looking for a secondary opening as White (my primary is 1 e4) and I am wondering if the Catalan would be a good choice.  Is the Catalan easy to learn?  Can I get by with learning general ideas or must I memorize many concrete lines?  What are some good resources on the Catalan?

If the Catalan is not a suitable choice, then please recommend me another good choice.  I will consider most openings but I have one criteria:

* The opening must have at least a decent reputation at the higher levels (e.g. no Grob attack, please).  That is, the opening should be theoretically sound with no obvious or known uncompensated positional or tactical defects.

Read IM Jeremy Silman's review of this Catalan book, you'll get an idea of what the Catalan is like:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Powerful-Catalan-The-p3720.htm

Just be aware of the following:

Black can sidestep the Catalan by playing ...c5 after White plays g3 which ends up being a Benoni.

If White usually plays the Fianchetto Variation against the KID, Black is able to reach the Neo-Grunfeld.

No.

And if you really need a back-up choose one within 1. e4 and not a completely new system.

^ Any recommendations?

My main is the Ruy Lopez.

New_Member24 is right.  But if you want to branch out and learn something other than 1 e4 then the Catalan is a good system.  The best resource I know of is Wojo's Weapons Volume 1.

The Italian game game (3. Bc4), Scotch game (3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4) and Scotch Gambit (3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4) are popular alternatives to Bb5. Or you play a side line in the Ruy Lopez itself like the exchange or Worall attack.

My first win against a GM was achieved in a very sharp Catalan: http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2591567

Unfortunately the notation isn't correct, I played 32.Qe7 and it lasted until move 40.

To understand the Catalan you need quite some positional foreknowledge. So if you are an e4 player somewhere sub-2000 and look for a second weapon, better learn the Trompovsky.

At the GM-level, the Catalan can be quite a theoretical opening, but that's true of almost any opening at the GM-level.  At our below-Master level, the Catalan is a good opening to play.  I like to play it because it's flexible and positional.  The only problem I've found is that you have to be ready to play against a Queen's Gambit accepted when it can be difficult to recapture the pawn on c4 with your light-squared Bishop on g2.

The Open Catalan (lines with dxc4) are very concrete and very heavy theory, no matter on what level they are played. You don't know the correct continuation - you end up a pawn down with no compensation before move 10. Also you need to understand the Open Catalan main line 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.Dc2 a6, in which white usually plays for tiny endgame advantages. And then you need to understand how to apply positional pressure in the Closed Catalan. None of that is really suited for <2000 IMO.

Dude, im a just tell you this, i was the sameway but you know what, i realised im a sitting duck if all i play is E4, so what i did was STUDY ALL THE D4 OPENINGS, because knowing one d4 opening is useless because your opponent can stir the game into another opening, see what i'm saying? you play d4 and he plays d5... now what? but if your like me, i play C4 and go straight to the queens gambit, if my opponent plays 1... nf6 i play 2.c4 and from on there, when you study one d4 opening your wasting your time unless you study them all, just use a comptuter program and click on opening training and go thru all the d4 openings that way you will have some insight on how to play with it, now me, if i want to go for a more aggressive cutting edge game i play e4, if im in a idk, chill mode i'll play d4 and keep it simple (even tho it can get just as complicated as e4) so basically bro, dont just study one thing of d4 cause chances are... ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN EVERYTIME, STUDY ALL OF THEM (E4 AND D4, HELL EVEN C4 AND B4)  FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE BOARD!

YES PEOPLE I SAID EVEN STUDY B4!!! I HAVE DESTROYED PEOPLE USING B4 SIMPLY BECAUSE I KNOW THE LINES AND BECAUSE I PLAYED B4 IT THREW THEM ALL THE WAY OFF THERE GAME CAUSE I SKIP OPENING THEORY AND INTO MY OWN AND I LAUGH WHEN I SEE THEM TRY IT ON ME WHEN I KNOW THE LINES VERY WELL, SO YES MY POINT IS... STUDY IT ALL! E4,D4,C4,B4,G4. You don't have to get to heavy but just enough to know the lines and your opponent wont surprise you. anywho, thats my 2 cents :)

The best books on this subject are without any doubt 1.d4 by Boris Avrukh book 1 and 2. But the fact that you don't know the full array of openings after 1.d4 suggests that you seem to be trying the fifth step before the first.

I'm a Catalan fan and I disagree with the idea that it's not suited for players <2000, particularly when one is facing opponents who are also <2000! I find it to be very flexible system against a wide range of responses from black. In most cases, white will find himself with good piece development, king safety, good space, and no major weaknesses. Yes, sometimes you might find yourself a c pawn down if you aren't careful, but very active pieces usually compensate, and the missing pawn is rarely decisive with so many other advantages. Just my two patzer cents.

Below expert, the things that play out as advantages aren't really the same as the things that do so concretely with best play in the master ranks.

That's one of the reasons a lot of people have success with the Catalan as amateurs.  Because in lines like the one you posted above, white is castled, has a good start at development, has ample good, active squares for his pieces, and has a central majority.

It isn't going to give you a leg up on Carlsen, who has a solid position and a pawn in hand.  But it's plenty to give you at least white's regular chances against other woodpushers.  Especially if you see the position more often than black does.

I see looking at a couple of the big online sites that catalog their members' games, that the position above is scoring something like 60% for white for all games above 1400.  That means it's giving white plenty of practical chances in ways that play out so that a class player can grasp them.

You might want to consider the semi catalan.

That thread is gone, chessph.

Sorry that I misunderstood you. Why do you think that these books are not detailed enough? I can pretty much assure you that there isn't anything on the subject right now, that has a similar level of competence and detail. Closest would be Khalifman's and Marin's 1.Nf3 repertoire series, but apart from the fact that they're not 1.d4, the Khalifman series has grown a bit old, and Marin is much lower in quality - many mistakes in his analyses. (They are still good and I'm working with them, but not nearly as good as Avrukh's.)

Only if white plays d5. White can still play Nf3 and transpose into an english type game with similar ideas to the catalan.

Are the crazy lines where black plays b5 holding the pawn simply too dangerous for black below master level?