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French opening - what was wrong?

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SuperKnight42

I just finished a game with a strong player.  I thought the French opening is very solid, but I had to quit the game at an early time.  Can any of you help me to find out where I made a mistake(s)?  How the game should have been proceeded safely to the middle game.  Thanks in advance.

 

 


SuperKnight42

After 13.Qxe4+, if I play 13...Be7, then White can play Qxb7 to get a rook.  I have to castle immediately.  He will then retrieve his bishop or move his rook to e1.  The black bishop is hanging.  I would lose at least one piece. 

 


mathijs
3...c5 is uncommon, as far as I know, and is seems dangerous. I play 3...Bb4 myself, but that's a very tricky opening too. Safest is probably 3...Nf6 or 3...dxe4. The big mistake seems 7...Bxb5 and the follow up. I think you thought it would win you material, but since it doesn't, it loses a lot of time that you should use for castling. When you open up the center, it is essential that you can move the king out quickly. So probably it was better to play 7...Be7 and castle as soon as possible after that. However you will then lose the entire center after 8.dxc5. So 3...c5 was too soon.
SuperKnight42

Thanks for the comments.  

I admit that 8...Qa5+ is a lost of time.  I was trying to get rid of the annoying pin of the white bishop put on the f6 knight.  Also I was expecting to win the white knight on c3. 

Later I  found that I will lose my bishop if I put it at e7.  So it was too late to castle. 


pedro823
5...nd7!
YuvalW

c5 Is not an usual move, there are 2 main veriations (that I know about) here:

3... Bb6 called the winewar (or something like that), and when the knight is pinned you play c5

3... Nf6 this looks like a weard move, but it have the idea of e5 (breaking the tense) and Nd7 which sopports c5 (another veriation is 4...Ne4, but I didn't used is...)

 


Aurel63
Ne4 was the last mistake; your king is still in the center and you must continue the development of your pieces. Maybe 9. ..N8d7 followed by 0-0-0.
Anyway, white stays better, his pieces being more active, but after 9. ...Ne4 you open the lines in center and the king is exposed to the white pieces attack.

After 12. Qe2 - f5 13. Ne5 white has advantage (Qh5 threaten)

Dont forget to finish you pieces development and after you secure you king, all will be ok. The french is ok, but you play wrong the opening, and you forget about fast development of your pieces. Good luck!.

UKRN2017

after 4... exd5 you lost a pawn , right !?

 


KillaBeez
I play 3. Nf6.  After e5 Nfd7 f4 c5, Black will get an attack on the Queenside, where White's King is conveniently placed.  If Bg5, then dxe4 Nxe4 Be7 Bxf6 Bxf6 Nf3 Nd7 Qd2 0-0 0-0-0 Be7 is interesting and a lively position.
ericmittens
What's with 3...c5??
CarlMI
If you check the shredder online opening database (here: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html ) you will see 3. ... c5 does not even register.  Notice after c5 you were behind on development, space, king safety, etc.  You need to pay attention to the ML in an opening before experimenting like this.  If you don't want to play the two best moves (3...Bb4-Winawer or 3....Nf6-Classical) try 3.... exd4.
MapleDanish

I know I'm gonna get flamed to no end after saying this but the French is NOT solid... It takes a very talented if not experienced player to give a prepared white a game.

 

Especially the classical french, I lick my lips every time I see one.

 

To be fair though, the French IS sound... just takes some practice. 


CarlMI

Well, not flamed but it seems you've not been seeing French players who know their game.  I remember when I was but a wee "D" player and an "A" player was trying to wipe me off the board.  I knew my defense, however, and even his "novelty" (new to me) was insufficent as I stuck to the ideas of the French.  I had him beat but overlooked a spite check which cost me a piece (it was this big, honest but the line snapped).

The French is solid.  In any opening an unprepared player will come off worse against a prepared player.  I have found that people who play openings like the French, Caro, Alekhine are weaker players with limited time to spend on the opening.  Thus they pick a defense which greatly limits Whites choices but even then don't put the effort necessary into it.


ericmittens
CarlMI wrote:

  I have found that people who play openings like the French, Caro, Alekhine are weaker players with limited time to spend on the opening. 


 This is complete nonsense.

 

I guess Morozevich (plays the french), Karpov (plays the caro), and Carlsen (plays Alekhine) are weak players with little time to spend on openings. 

 

The French can be as solid (Tarrasch mainlines) or as double-edged (Alekhine-Chatard attack) as white chooses.


BigHogDogg
my analysis
CarlMI
ericmittens wrote: CarlMI wrote:

  I have found that people who play openings like the French, Caro, Alekhine are weaker players with limited time to spend on the opening. 


 This is complete nonsense.

 

I guess Morozevich (plays the french), Karpov (plays the caro), and Carlsen (plays Alekhine) are weak players with little time to spend on openings. 

 

The French can be as solid (Tarrasch mainlines) or as double-edged (Alekhine-Chatard attack) as white chooses.


 And of course, from my days, Korchnoi. Look at the World Championship matches.  I made the point badly.  I was talking of club players, the description was fairly accurate of myself for instance.  Once club players start hitting "A" level they often start looking more closely at things like the Sicilian, Ruy, etc allowing White more choices but giving black more opportunities.  And remember we are looking at it from Black's view.  Black has to allow the Tarrasch or the Alekhine, White cannot get them without cooperation.


ericmittens
CarlMI wrote: ericmittens wrote: CarlMI wrote:

  I have found that people who play openings like the French, Caro, Alekhine are weaker players with limited time to spend on the opening. 


 This is complete nonsense.

 

I guess Morozevich (plays the french), Karpov (plays the caro), and Carlsen (plays Alekhine) are weak players with little time to spend on openings. 

 

The French can be as solid (Tarrasch mainlines) or as double-edged (Alekhine-Chatard attack) as white chooses.


 And of course, from my days, Korchnoi. Look at the World Championship matches.  I made the point badly.  I was talking of club players, the description was fairly accurate of myself for instance.  Once club players start hitting "A" level they often start looking more closely at things like the Sicilian, Ruy, etc allowing White more choices but giving black more opportunities.  And remember we are looking at it from Black's view.  Black has to allow the Tarrasch or the Alekhine, White cannot get them without cooperation.


 Yea I suppose that's fairly accurate, I don't know any class-A players who play the french. It's all sicilians and queen's gambits and ruys and such. I'm a class-B player myself and most of the people I play on my level don't know very much theory at all and/or play "systems" like the colle or london. As black I see a lot of e5 and c5.


CarlMI
Exactly, one guy at our club, who likes the Kings Gambit say everyone he faces over 1800 plays 1....c5.
ericmittens
Oddly enough, once you get into the strong expert-master category you start to see a wider variety of openings. French defence, english, benonis, etc...
Eventhorizon
After Qe2 f5 is the only move left!