your first variations was for crap
King's Gambit - what not to do.
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melvinbluestone wrote:
The King's Gambit is an unsound opening that has been totally refuted by the Wagenbach Defense, 3...h5! Observe:
why does black do 8 ... Qd8? why not Qg7, Qg6 or Qa5?
if the king's gambit is unsound why does white win...
because it is equal, and it is not unsound, just there are more " favorable openings" out there
melvinbluestone wrote:
The King's Gambit is an unsound opening that has been totally refuted by the Wagenbach Defense, 3...h5!
Excellent - I shall warn Nigel Short immediately.
bigryoung wrote:
if the king's gambit is unsound why does white win...
I think he was joking. Hopefully.
jetfighter13 wrote:
because it is equal, and it is not unsound, just there are more " favorable openings" out there
Very true:
I prefer 3. Bc4 to 3. Nf3
jetfighter13 wrote:
I prefer 3. Bc4 to 3. Nf3
3...Qh4+ and your kingside is pretty much wrecked.
Bluebird1964 wrote:
All the 3... Qh4 must be considered dubious. White has nothing to fear providing he stays alert. Having the black queen on h4 may look threatening but in reality all it does is to increase white's tactical chances.
am with you there, and yes to pfren, d5 is probably blacks best move
melvinbluestone wrote:
jp_23 wrote:
why does black do 8 ... Qd8? why not Qg7, Qg6 or Qa5?
A more appropriate question would be: Why does black do 3...h5? Why not g5, d5 or c5? Incidentally, 3...c5, which almost nobody plays, is worth a look....
3...h5!? is fine and fun to play. However, 6...Nc6 is dubious (don't get pieces out too soon in the Wagenbach!) and 8...Qd8 is just a terrible blunder. Try the same idea (7 Nxg5?) against 6...d6 and it's White who is losing.
melvinbluestone wrote:
And Donald Trump was just some guy in a reality TV show! Go figure.......
That still amazes me... Like as a voter words cannot.... I just.... uggggg
OP seems to think that 3.d4 is a losing move but its not so clear after 3.d4 Qh4 4.Ke2!
Insane and strange but white has centre, Qh4 will be attacked with Nf3, white king will be usually replaced on f2. So black has to be active otherwise white will get a nice advantage in centre.
Theorically it is better for black, but it really leads to sharp play and if white knows well his line, black can be in trouble...
I really like to try to go for this is there anything wrong with it? I do not like playing black in the Muzio gambit, so I don't like 4. g4. I think this is much better for black, it just needs some patience.
I actually like black still even in this position.
pfren wrote:
poucin wrote:
OP seems to think that 3.d4 is a losing move but its not so clear after 3.d4 Qh4 4.Ke2!
Insane and strange but white has centre, Qh4 will be attacked with Nf3, white king will be usually replaced on f2. So black has to be active otherwise white will get a nice advantage in centre.
Theorically it is better for black, but it really leads to sharp play and if white knows well his line, black can be in trouble...
4...Qe7! is suggested by various sources as a refutation since an older game between two French GM's.
Both recent Black repertoire books (Lokander and Ntirlis) advocate the same approach as winning for Black, which may well be the case.
However, both suggest that after 3.d4 Qh4+ 4.Ke2 Qe7 white has no better move than 5.Nc3 which transposes after 5...Nf6, while white has the surprising 5.Kf2! which I initially thought that is crap. However, after some careful analysis I found no win for Black. Of course Black will not go for a draw with 5...Qh4+, but Black somehow gets his chances after both 5...d6 and 5...d5, and 5...Nf6 6.Bd3! (probably a novelty) is not bad, too.
Interesting that you should mention the constuction of the center in regards of the King's Gambit.
It was one of the reasons why I took up the Mason-Keres Gambit in the first place. The thing is though I have never understood really why the manover Qd8-Qh4+-Qe7 even rates a mention when after 3.Nc3 Qh4+ 4.Ke2 Ne7! is so blasted strong. The analysis provided by Bangiev in 'Das angenommene Konigsgambit mit 3.Sc3' on 4..Ne7! is flawed which does not boad well for the gambit.
I think your suggestion in the 3.d4 Qh4+ 4.Ke2 line is worth some further investigation
melvinbluestone wrote:
Thanks so much for the comment! I posted this so long ago, I still had hair! And Donald Trump was just some guy in a reality TV show! Go figure.......
While Wagenbach's idea of quickly restraining h4 with 3...h5 is probably a bit premature, it still makes for some interesting contests, and sometimes some pretty wild stuff.......
Here I was planning to try your suggestion 6...d6, but my opponent crossed me up with the aggressive 6.Ne5 instead of castling......
Nice game :) – I've added it to my database. Do you have any more details, opponent's name, site played, date or anything?
Incidentally, 6 Ne5 doesn't deserve a "!" — it's what people play when they see the Wagenbach for the first time. Usually they get as far as 7...Qf6 before realizing that 8 Nxf7 Nxf7 9 Bxf7 loses to 9...Ke7! and then try 8 Nc3 instead.
In response 8...c6 is okay, but Nd5 isn't really a threat, so Black can just play 8...d6 and if 9 Nd5 then 9...Qd8. Or 9 Nxf7 Nxf7 10 Bxf7+ Kd8! 11 Qg6 Qxg6 12 Bxg6 Nc6 13 Ne2 Bg7 14 c3 Ke7!, followed by ...Kf6 and Black soon consolidates a pawn up.
The King's Gambit is a good opening if you know what you're doing. The idea is for white to sacrifice it's f pawn in order to gain a better position in the center. The material can usually be recaptured later in the game. But moving the f pawn opens up the king to attacks which white must stop immediately.
Here's another variation.
In order to save its castle, the best move for white would be to develop the knight with Nf3. g3 also stops the threat, but at the expense of creating a pawn island and in all likelyhood losing white's kingside castle.
If you are playing white and forgot to bring your knight out, Ke2 will keep your king temporarily safe as it will be defended by a queen, bishop and knight.