Scotch Gambit, weird line.

9 months ago · Quote · #1
Zigwurst

Scotch Gambit - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4

I am having trouble with the line after 4...Bc5 5.c3 d3. I always achieve rubbish positions and I cannot figure out why.
9 months ago · Quote · #2
ZubaeerAkhtar

Try 6.Qxd3. Try to get your pieces aimed at the kingside and attack rapidly, using the semi-open e-file to your advantage.
9 months ago · Quote · #3
Gordon1962

Why not try b4. Looks solid.
9 months ago · Quote · #4
Ishan01

Here b4 is solid and it shows that you are in a good shape to attack the kingside.It also advances the b-pawn and may be useful to put pressure on the kingside.After b4 you will play o-o or Qd3 gaining a very good position and advanced development in the middlegame.After Qd3,it is good to castle and play Bf4 and then Nd2,which will complete your development quickly and u will have nice chances to win.Hope this satisfies
9 months ago · Quote · #5
chuey-chu

u should take with the queen. im learning the scoth gambit rite now and my coach told me 2 do that in that position
9 months ago · Quote · #6
owltuna

This is a good situation for learning that recaptures need not be automatic. That pawn is too weak to survive, you can play positionally here and wait on the recapture, the pawn isn't going anywhere. Or go ahead and take with the queen. You are correct that taking with the bishop leaves your center a bit awkward, so don't do it! I don't see that there is a possible recapture with a knight?!
9 months ago · Quote · #7
Zigwurst

Are there any lines that you could give me involving b4? Such as:

6.b4 Be7 (6...Bb6 7.a4) 7.Bf4 Nf6 8.e5 Ng4 9.Qxd3

Does this look good? There are probably improvements to this.
9 months ago · Quote · #8
Gordon1962

The database shows that after b4 Bb6 is by far the most likely. Now you have a choice, of course.

7. a4 looks favorite but then after 7. a4 a6 the database favours black. So after some analysis Qxd3 looks very good but it isn't in the database.
9 months ago · Quote · #9
Zigwurst

What would you recommend?
8 months ago · Quote · #10
doodledoo3

Why didn't back take the pawn? He would lose that pawn anyway why just let white take? And I think castles would be better because nothing can protect that pawn. You also speed up your development.
8 months ago · Quote · #11
IM pfren

5...d3 is fairly unambitious, yet a perfectly good move. Most flexible is probably 6.0-0 (capturing the d3 pawn can wait), yet after 6...d6 Black has little to fear. Surely enough 5...d3 is a perfectly logical positional approach, which does not deserve the "?!" evaluation.

In short, I do not think white has any advantage- which is to be expected when playing a suboptimal opening.

Statistics in such unpopular openings are meaningless- they are mainly based on patzer games.
8 months ago · Quote · #12
Zigwurst

So we can just wait to recapture while completing development? That sounds logical.
8 months ago · Quote · #13
IM pfren

Yes. Actually at some point you will play Qxd3 (most logical) and expand on the queenside by b4/a4 etc, but you can't expect much: Black's position is rock solid- he just has a small space disadvantage, but his pieces are quite active.
8 months ago · Quote · #14
Zigwurst

So White should continue with Bf4, Nbd2-Nb3, b4, a4 and play on the queenside?
8 months ago · Quote · #15
Fredrocke

I simply take with Qd3, the Queen can't be attacked so easily, and you threaten bxf7
8 months ago · Quote · #16
IM pfren

Well, the best try to play offbeat is something like that:

Obviously move order is not terribly important here.

Objectively the play is about equal after 15.Nbd2 or 14.Bxd3, but there is still a lot of play remaining. White just overpressed, and lost.
8 months ago · Quote · #17
blitzjoker

pfren wrote:

5...d3 is fairly unambitious, yet a perfectly good move. Most flexible is probably 6.0-0 (capturing the d3 pawn can wait), yet after 6...d6 Black has little to fear. Surely enough 5...d3 is a perfectly logical positional approach, which does not deserve the "?!" evaluation.

In short, I do not think white has any advantage- which is to be expected when playing a suboptimal opening.

Statistics in such unpopular openings are meaningless- they are mainly based on patzer games.

We're mainly patzers here though, so the stats still mean a bit :-)

You are right of course that this is a suboptimal opening, but I play it a lot as it leads to some entertaining games.

Did you see the Giri game last night pfren? Gives hope to us all...