Feature Request: Fully Integrated Game Explorer

Many people don't use databases because it is not convenient to do so. Even Game Explorer is a bit of a chore to use. One of the suggestions on the Wishlist was closer integration between the standard board and Game Explorer. If there was a one-click button taking you straight into Game Explorer from the current position, imagine how its use would rocket.

Used as an Openings Database, Game Explorer has at least TWO distinct functions:

First, it lets you explore various games databases (Master Games; your own games; other players' games) to investigate how a game could be continued. Also, it provides (dangerously misleading!) percentages showing the number of games in the specified database with a particular continuation.

Secondly, it labels the opening sequence e.g. 

1.d4 : A40 - Queen Pawn Opening

1.d4 e5 : A40 - Englund Gambit Complex 

1.d4 e5  2.Nf3 : A40 - Englund Gambit: Declined, Reversed Alekhine 

1.d4 e5  2.Nf3 e4 : A40 - Englund Gambit: Declined, Reversed Krebs

1.d4 e5  2.Nf3 e4   3.Ne5 : A40 - Englund Gambit: Declined, Reversed Mokele Mbembe

The second function would interesting as a commentary - even if it was not displayed until AFTER a move had been submitted.

Leaving aside, for a moment, the point that many people don't wish to use an Opening Database (in correspondence chess) - and perfectly reasonably, choose not to do so; it would be a great way of becoming more familiar with Opening nomenclature for those who wish to learn during game play.

Even more useful would be to have it integrated into the sidebox (the one that contains chat, movelist, etc.) - just put it in another tab.  

I definitely agree that one needs to be careful in using it.  The best use I have made of it is in a themed tournament, where I could explore the particular opening we were using and see what kind of positions were most advantageous before starting my games.  A great tool in that regard.

Using explorer is akin to cheating and I do not use it for that reason.  Anything that makes cheating easier should not be advocated.  Explorer has, I'm sure, have a role to assist with the learning process, but this should not be in a rated competitive game.  If used it should be declared and the game made unrated.  It should be declared on a game-by-game basis, not a general remark within a profile which is unlikely to be looked at by the challanger.

For middle game and endgame enthusiasts, Game Explorer is a boon, too, because it gets you past a lot of traps in openings with which you're not familiar. But I don't suppose opening game enthusiasts care for that very much. :-]

There was a discussion here (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/a-tally-of-database-users--non-users) which ran to over 1000 posts. It was merely the latest but not the last of many long discussions. Whatever your personal opinion, the fact remains that using an Openings database during a correspondence chess game on chess.com - whether rated or unrated - whether both players are aware of it use or not - or of any other factors - is permitted under the site rules and, therefore, IT IS NOT CHEATING.

JG27Pyth  pointed out (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/using-books--databases-for-playing-turn-based) that the rules for game play on this site are very clear ( why using books and DataBases is not cheating ) - though not what a newcomer unfamiliar with correspondence chess might instinctively guess.

Yes -- this, in my mind,  more closely represents full integration than simply linking to the database from the current position.  It's a great idea, but I'm not sure I care for the potential ramifications of implementing this idea, however, as it may easily become a real crutch for many players that hampers their ability to understand they whys of an opening as opposed to the whats.

Higher up on my wishlist is full integration of the analysis board, the conditional moves interface and the game board.  I believe all of these could be one board (the main game board) by enbling the analysis board's ability to make multiple moves and then changing the "Submit Move" button to "Commit Line".

 well said artfizz, I was just going to say that. I wonder how many more times we'll have to have this discussion ....

Tremendously true.ADMIRATIONS!!!!!

I didn't say that it was breaking any rules; I said it was AKIN to cheating.  Whatever the rules say, I still believe that.  Does this mean you use it against me (definately no need)?  Does anyone know a site as advanced as this one that does not allow it, I may decide to switch? 

I personally think it's soft. I would want to know if my opponent is using a database.

It's cool though, that's why a lot of people have higher online chess ratings then they do live chess ratings. They use it as a crutch.

Would you say that looking up an opening, whether on the internet or in a book, is cheating?  Even when you're not currently playing a game of chess?

Correspondence chess games can last for months.  It's unreasonable to assume that anyone playing a game of correspondence chess will quit studying opening theory for months to play a few games of chess online.

I doubt you'll find any sites that claim to enforce such a restriction, and even fewer (0, in fact) that do successfully enforce it.

"AKIN to cheating" = a form of cheating = cheating.

You've been on this site for 6 months. In all that time, there have been hundreds (probably thousands) of comments written about what is allowed and what is not allowed - and the rationale behind it.

For those who choose not to use some of the site facilities (such as opening databases, the Analysis Board, 2-stage move, etc., etc.), there are several schemes available: join Circle of Trust group (or similar groups); write it in your profile; write it in the name of the game.

But please, don't label it as any form of CHEATING. Otherwise, what are we going to call REAL CHEATING?

Good luck in finding a better chess site than this one. 

Cheating and breaking the rules are synonymous.  If it's not against the rules then it's not cheating.  Simple as that.

I think it makes sense to allow database use.  Making it not allowed and then trying to police it would be difficult in the extreme, especially when there is the more egregious computer-aided cheating to be concerned about (and which must occupy a lot of the staff's time here).  

I've used it myself on occasion, generally for the first several moves of a particular line, especially in themed tournaments.  In total, the number of times I have used the explorer database amounts to a few percentage points of the total number of games I have played, just to speak for myself.  

It's not a very good tool if you're not going to put some thought into it, and once you do then you start learning, and don't need to use the database for similar situations in the future.

yep those game explorer and live chess are still in "beta"

I have often wished for quick access in the Game Explorer to the positions I have in my games.

artfizz, you have an interesting idea but i cannot support it. using databases is fine but i dont like the idea that a large number of the people i play are just playing from a scripted database which i think is the result if explorer is directly linked to games. as a teaching tool it becomes a crutch not an aid. i do like the idea that the names of openings appear though. cheers.

That probably wouldn't be a lot of help. Even if the database contained a game with the exact position AND your colour WINS in one of the continuations, as soon as your opponent diverges from the lines available, you're on your own again.

True, but it would be helpful in the opening phase.  Often, I have played through an opening line, looking at the different moves people have played, and then closed the window I did this in.  Thus, I have had to make the moves for the opening line over and over again.  If there was a direct link to the position, it would save time.

This thread is depressing.

Is there a group of people here who don't use a database during play?