For example, you could just tell him your plan and if he agrees, start the game and set up 11 conditional moves. He can then play his 11 moves in a row.
Interesting game. Please help.
Sort:
since the game is over, He is right. White is better after Qb5 or Qb4. not a lot better and black has pressure on the queenside but White is better.
Sred wrote:
For example, you could just tell him your plan and if he agrees, start the game and set up 11 conditional moves. He can then play his 11 moves in a row.
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, how do I set up 11 conditional moves?
TonyH wrote:
since the game is over, He is right. White is better after Qb5 or Qb4. not a lot better and black has pressure on the queenside but White is better.
He's wrong. And so are you. I'll extend my challenge to you if you think you can beat me from this position. I think black is in a significantly stronger position (albeit down a point), and I don't think you or he could beat it.
Now, if only I could figure out how to do conditional moves. I swear I did it before. But that was before the whole reorganizing of the website.
again I said better not winning, black has counterplay but white is better. If a stronger player than you disagrees with you play around with it against a computer and see whose right. Its an interesting position though and YOU can learn a lot exploring it.
I have explored it, and you are not a stronger player than me.
TonyH wrote:
again I said better not winning, black has counterplay but white is better. If a stronger player than you disagrees with you play around with it against a computer and see whose right. Its an interesting position though and YOU can learn a lot exploring it.
So, what? You think it's better to lose?
Honestly, I just don't see how white comes out in a better position. I've examined it from a million different angles, and best I could find is equal points with a stronger position for black. But, hey if you think you could show me a way where white comes out on top, I'm not too proud to admit being wrong.
the fact your talking about points is a strong indicator. Not worth my time
"Now, if only I could figure out how to do conditional moves. I swear I did it before. But that was before the whole reorganizing of the website."
I have never played online, but it seems to me, that you could simply agree with your oponent to replay the first 11 moves.
It is unfortunate that the discussion has become a bit defensive, as it is an interesting position. It seems to me, that black enjoys several threats and (temporarily, at least) the easier game. I should not be more specific until the game is replayed.
Good luck.
timab wrote:
So, I started this game
But the guy I was playing argued that if he would have moved 12. Qb4, he could have saved his queen AND held onto his 1 point lead. I beg to differ.
Basically, what I want to do is send him a challenge where we start on move 12, so I can prove to him that he's wrong. But, I can't exactly figure out how to do that.
d4 at the appropriate place in the move order depending on Black's chosen move, seems to solve alot of White's problems in this position.
May 26, 2012
0
#13
timab, It would really help us all if you would post a diagram instead of a list of moves but here's one I put together with some likely moves following 12.Qb4. You are right to claim that white is still in a weak position but does have a way out with careful play.
These are just my first thoughts - don't claim they're perfect but as 'transpo' has stated above, d4 does seem to save the day for white.
Stephen,
I don't know to what degree timab was asking for positional analysis, rather than just "how do I send him a challenge where we start on move 12, " but I sympathize with the impulse, and, now that it's done, my impulse is to be hypocritical. I thought of your line first, and then I thought of, 13 Qc4 Be6 14 Qb5 c6 and 15Qb4 Nxd3 is unavoidable. Timab is both aggressive enough and probably good enough to see this on his own.
Early pawn hunting is often punishable, and black may have been better trying to attack the queen/bishop pair with 10...Ra7 11Qc6 Nb8 (forking) or 11Qb5 Nb8 doubling on nearly trapped bishop. 12 Bb7 Qb8 etc.
Regardless of who "proves" correct, white should recognize that he is in a scary situation.
10. ra7 looks like its winning ofr black.
Escapest_Pawn wrote:
Stephen,
I don't know to what degree timab was asking for positional analysis, rather than just "how do I send him a challenge where we start on move 12, " but I sympathize with the impulse, and, now that it's done, my impulse is to be hypocritical. I thought of your line first, and then I thought of, 13 Qc4 Be6 14 Qb5 c6 and 15Qb4 Nxd3 is unavoidable. Timab is both aggressive enough and probably good enough to see this on his own.
Early pawn hunting is often punishable, and black may have been better trying to attack the queen/bishop pair with 10...Ra7 11Qc6 Nb8 (forking) or 11Qb5 Nb8 doubling on nearly trapped bishop. 12 Bb7 Qb8 etc.
Regardless of who "proves" correct, white should recognize that he is in a scary situation.
After12...Rxa6 the best continuation for White is 13.d4 if then Black plays 13...Nd3 14.Qc4
It looks like you are right about 10...Ra7. There are several inaccuracies during the game prior to 10...Ra7 which make the game seesaw favoring White or Black during moves 1 - 9.
Your line is clever, but I think its still too messy to speak with certainty.
12...Rxa6 13 d4 Ra4 14 Qb5 Bd7
14...c6 is even better because the pawn although undefended directly, it is indirectly defended 15.Qxc6?? Bd7! and the Q is trapped. But after 14...c6 15.Qe2 and White should be alright.
May 26, 2012
0
#19
Escapest_Pawn wrote:
Stephen,
I don't know to what degree timab was asking for positional analysis, rather than just "how do I send him a challenge where we start on move 12, " but I sympathize with the impulse, and, now that it's done, my impulse is to be hypocritical. I thought of your line first, and then I thought of, 13 Qc4 Be6 14 Qb5 c6 and 15Qb4 Nxd3 is unavoidable.
Ah, misunderstood the OP's intention then - thought he was inviting comments on the move. Show me a sequence of moves & I can't resist analysing it.
I like your line but are you sure about 15...Nxd3 ? - it gives white an escape (albeit scary) at b7, attacking the rook. Isn't it better to play 15...Ra4 - doesn't that capture the queen or am I missing something ?
But as you suggest, timab is quite able to see this for himself.
I stand by my comment about people posting diagrams rather than sequences of moves - it just makes it easier to see what's meant !
As for starting an online game at a particular move, can't be done as far as I know. But what's the problem with challenging the same person to an unrated game & replaying the moves upto the point you want ? Probably quicker than entering conditional moves.
stephen_33 wrote:
timab, It would really help us all if you would post a diagram instead of a list of moves but here's one I put together with some likely moves following 12.Qb4. You are right to claim that white is still in a weak position but does have a way out with careful play.
after d4..... nxp,nxn,nxn(threating r.) r. move,nxp attacking q. this is a black win.
These are just my first thoughts - don't claim they're perfect but as 'transpo' has stated above, d4 does seem to save the day for white.
So, I started this game
But the guy I was playing argued that if he would have moved 12. Qb4, he could have saved his queen AND held onto his 1 point lead. I beg to differ.
Basically, what I want to do is send him a challenge where we start on move 12, so I can prove to him that he's wrong. But, I can't exactly figure out how to do that.