GMs/IMs who started late?

Anyone know of any GMs or IMs who learned chess (or started taking it seriously) as an adult? Say, after age 20? This isn't for my own benefit, as I took up chess around age 11. But I've started coaching some beginner adult players and I want to know if it's possible. To give them hope.

Even most people who start as kids don't become IMs or GMs, so why don't you just advise them to study for a couple years to see if they even like it enough to work at it.

Sure it's possible, so you can tell them so... just don't mention it's not very likely

You could give them hope a different way though... say, tell them they could certainly be better than you are now if they put in a lot of work, or if they're beginners it's no lie that they'll be able to beat 99% of the people they know / casual players within a year (again if they work at it).

Doesn't fit the criteria of "after age 20", but here's one GM who didn't learn chess until 17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Jiangchuan

Chigorin did not start playing till his mid 20s

I don't I want to delude anyone into thinking they'll be the next Kasparov or anything, I'm just looking for some sources of inspiration I can refer to. Thanks for the answers so far... any others?

 Larry Kaufman

Rubinstein, Lilienthal

Great topic, thanks Geordie! It prompted me to do a little bit of research and apparently Howard Staunton didn't start taking chess seriously until he was 26 

Well what's their motivation for taking lessons in the first place?  Obviously they want to get better.  But maybe they have a personal benchmark in mind such as a friend or family member they've never beaten or maybe a certain rating or winning a local tournament.

So anyway, asking them what their goals are may be a good place to start.

Larry Kaufman may not be the best example, he seems to have been playing tournament chess for about 50 years. I recall a Yugoslav player whose name escapes me at the moment, but he became a GM at the age of 72. However, he too began early like Kaufman. Sometimes life gets in the way of chess accomplishments.

Anyone can become a FIDE master if they work at it..

so your post doesnt count. 

FIDE Master?  Anyone, really?  I could be an F---in Master (the "F" stands for FIDE) one day?  

Yes, there is no difference in learning rate between children and adults....

wrong!

Well, the most notorius case most was Rubinstein, and If I recall correctly Julio Becerra started late, 13, may be less; not sure about this. there is a russian master, not chigorin, who started really late, 17, when in the hospital. Not sure either, but may be was Romanovsky... dont take my word about the name. Tolush I dont know if he started late, but he got the IM and GM titles really late, when almost everyone is thinking in retirement.

of course there is learning difference between kids and adults; chess for an adult will become a gigantic task, meanwhile for a kid is just easier. is the way nature is. But with the right methods and dedication an adult can get better at chess.

Oh, from my personal experience I'm not sure one way or another.  I was thinking of scientific studies

Young children's brains are made to absorb tons of information.  It's really astounding how much all children absorb from, say, 5 to 10.  Once you get into teen years I don't know anything about that.  I remember one GM quote though saying (in regard to chess) what he could learn in a day at 14 took him 2 weeks now.

I'm guessing he didn't mean memorizing an opening variation, but ingraining a new idea or pattern into his play.

No-one is suggesting children are better than adults at chess.

The point is, the vast majority of IMs and GMs start playing chess at an early age for two main reasons:

1. At the top levels of play you need a hell of a lot of experience. "10,000 hours to become a master".

2. Children's brains are not necessarily faster, per se, but they are more "plastic". Connections can be broken and re-routed more readily.
This means they are closer to a blank slate. Adults learning chess will begin with biases and blind spots which will be slow to change.

I don't relish any of this: I only started playing chess regularly at the age of 30! But it's a fact of life that if you want to be a international master of any serious skill, you need to start before your mid-teens. 

It's probably very hard to become a GM if you don't start early. In the past it was easier to reach the top without starting serious training as a kid, and still players like Rubinstein, Chigorin and Blackburne, that usually are mentioned as the latest starters, learnt how to play when they were around 16-17. Maybe Chigorin is the best example of a late starter since he didn't take chess seriously until he was well into his 20s and still almost became World Champion. But nowadays I wonder if a late starter really should aim at becoming a GM, maybe better to just have fun or learn to play as well as possible. It's scary to look at players like Carlsen, Karjakin, Giri and Hou Yifan and see the chess they have been playing when 14-15 years old.

That line gets trotted out a lot, for many sports / skills, but it's BS.

There are plenty of adults that work hours the same or less than the school + homework equivalent. And some people are wealthy enough that they could just devote themselves to a skill for six months, a year or even indefinitely.
Certainly enough time for it to be clear whether they have any practical chance of ever becoming a GM. Which they won't.

There's no end of people that hit 25 and decide they'd much rather be a concert pianist than do whatever crappy job they're doing. But, unless you've had lessons from a pre-teen age, that door is closed. You need to pick an instrument or skill where you won't be competing against people who've practiced all their lives.

It seems to have been a lot more possible back in the good old days - before PCs, TVs, radios, the internet, etc.

Pillsbury learned how to play at age 15 or 16 (1887 or 1888), Staunton did not take up the game seriously until he was 26 or so (circa 1836). Staunton is recognized as being the unofficial World Champ from 1843-1851 and Pillsbury was a World CH contendor from 1895-1904 or thereabouts.