Depends on how complicated the position is. If it's really complicated I use my fingers and my toes.
Base 10 by the way. 0 - 9, that sorta thing.
How to count material in complicated positions?
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Counting material is an excercise for quiescent positions.
Powerlevel_9001 wrote:
Great example game of a material imbalence.
25.Nxd4 not being played puzzles me.
28.Na3! would have been nearly winning (if not decisive) too
Yes, a very fine example. This is one instance where I would be at the board with my shoes off, abstracting digits onto my toes full force.
Here's an example. Black wins with 1. ... Bxe3 2. Bxe3 Qxf1+ 3. Kxf1 Bh3+ followed by ... Rxd8. What should my thought process be to know that I am up material in the end?
Dan Heisman gave some useful stuff on counting in his Novice Nook columns. If you go to
http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Articles/Novice_Nook_Links.htm
and search for "counting", you'll see.
theArnold wrote:D
How do I count material in complicated positions? I looked over some hard puzzles recently and the answers involved a series of exchanges but not your typical exchanges. For instance, bishop for pawn, then queen for rook, then double check to win a whole queen! I want to be able to know whose up in material in the end.
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Counting material is not the most comprehensive factor in a position. It is a secondary, sometimes a tertiary factor. The primary factor is the pawn structure.
After scanning your games archive I have a preliminary assessment of your stage(s) of development as a player. A player's development is measured by the depth of his/her 5 visualization pattern memory banks in their brain. And, the depth of their understanding of 3 concepts: siege warfare(restrain, blockade, execute--the enemy), Classical and Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory, and Pawn Structure.
The 5 visualization pattern memory banks are:
1.Basic checkmate(K+Q v K, K+R v K, K+2Bs v K, and K+B+N v K) visualization pattern memory bank. When you can do these in your sleep, mating nets, in your games or any position that you analyze; the mating net in your King's area or your opponent's King's area will jump up off the board and smack you on the forehead.
2.Tactics visualization pattern memory bank.
3. Endgame Technique visualization pattern memory bank.
4. Opening Repertoire visualization pattern memory bank.
5. Middle Game visualization pattern memory bank.
You have the beginnings of understanding of the 3 concepts. You will need to work on developing depth in the following visualization memory banks:
1.Begin by working very hard with lots of practice on visualization pattern memory banks 1 and 2
2.After 2 months begin working on the depth of your visualization pattern memory bank 3.
3.After 6 months of study and practice begin study and practice of your visualization pattern memory bank 4. You will have to purchase software for this (suggest Chess Openings Wizard/BookUp and ChessBase games database 5 million+ games.
Finally during and after 3 years of working on your opening repertoire begin to work on your visualization pattern memory bank number 5
I hope this helps. If you would like to know more please let me know.
Just keep track in your head what the material situation is over the course of the game. I find it much easier to know what the relative material difference is (i.e. +1, -2, etc.) during an actual game rather than jumping right into a problem or puzzle.
the Arnold wrote:
Here's an example. Black wins with 1. ... Bxe3 2. Bxe3 Qxf1+ 3. Kxf1 Bh3+ followed by ... Rxd8. What should my thought process be to know that I am up material in the end?
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It is not a thought process. The method you are looking for develops from becoming a strong player that only needs one diagram, the one in his mind. That clear diagram in your mind is what makes counting material in a complicated position very easy.
One path to developing that one clear diagram in your mind is to use the study process I outlined in my first post.
Almost always the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method is best.
This question arises, I take it becauseyou are a bullet/tactics trainer specialist and you hope to find some aid which will assist you in keeping track when pieces are being traded at a great speed?
I don't know the answer but whatever method you are currently using plainly works pretty well. Doing the best I can I'd say rely on your instincts. The longer and more complex the series of exchanges the longer the arithmetical or other process will turn out to be but the less time you have available (because of the number of moves involved). So a method is very likely to be counter productive.
johnyoudell wrote:
This question arises, I take it becauseyou are a bullet/tactics trainer specialist and you hope to find some aid which will assist you in keeping track when pieces are being traded at a great speed?
I don't know the answer but whatever method you are currently using plainly works pretty well. Doing the best I can I'd say rely on your instincts. The longer and more complex the series of exchanges the longer the arithmetical or other process will turn out to be but the less time you have available (because of the number of moves involved). So a method is very likely to be counter productive.
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johnyoudell wrote:
Doing the best I can I'd say rely on your instincts.
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"instincts" the 5 visualization pattern memory banks.
johnyoudell wrote:
So a method is very likely to be counter productive.
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Too time consuming, especially in rapid transit (blitz, etc.)
One of the reasons strong players play blitz is to practice and reinforce their 5 visualization pattern memory banks.
How do I count material in complicated positions? I looked over some hard puzzles recently and the answers involved a series of exchanges but not your typical exchanges. For instance, bishop for pawn, then queen for rook, then double check to win a whole queen! I want to be able to know whose up in material in the end.