Tactic Trainer scoring

You know how you lose points even if you get the puzzle right?

Well, I just lost 6 poins (!) for solving a puzzle.

It took me 2:45 minutes, and the time bar at the bottom said 160 sec. I took 5 seconds more than the "allowed" time and I lost rating points. From 1860 to 1854.

Also, because I did a lot of puzzles I get around 5 points if I get one right in a good time. I think the highest points I get is around 8 for a 100% score.

This system is just wrong. I understand getting a penalty for taking too much time, but the penalty should be getting 0 points for correct solve in too much time. It makes no sense to lose points.

This system has a big flaw. You're incentivized in just shooting the first move that looks right, over and over again, trying to solve puzzles by blind luck. Eventually the puzzle will start repeating themselves and you'll know what to do. People who actually try to solve it properly (i.e. trying to calculate until the end) are penalized.

How this scoring system is still in place is beyond me. TT has very good puzzles and in general I love it, but the scoring system is just bonkers.

I think it makes sense that there is a penalty for taking too long to solve a problem, just as there is a penalty in an actual chess game.

You surely have done a lot of Tactics Trainer problems.  Do you believe that doing that many problems has helped you to improve your play?

To be honest with you I use the TT more as a pastime and I usually don't put much effort in it; that's why I have tons of problems and not a good score.

When I was seriously putting effort I was around 2100 (that is still not much I'll admit).

To answer you question: yes, if (and only if) you put effort in it it will improve your play. You'll start seeing more tactics even in your games.

Yeah I've switched to another site until chess.com address the issue.  The current system is badly flawed and encourages people to guess the moves rather than calculate properly.

You don't have unlimited time to figure out a position when you are playing. Why should you have three weeks to solve a position when you are given the advantage of knowing that a tactic is available? Surely 160 seconds offers more than enough time for getting beyond a mere guess in most situations. These are not usually asking you to figure out the finishing combinations that won the Immortal Game.

I am someone who often runs up against time controls in real games. I like the fact that I have to approach the problems somewhat rapidly and actively.

Depends on the problem, but the issue is, the disproportionately large punishment for taking only a few secs too long on a problem encourages people to play these puzzles "one move at a time" which in turn pushes down the average time and forces others to do the same, which in the end only harms people's proper calculation and visualisation abilities, the TT here is more suitable for blitz players rather than those trying to improve at standard time controls.  It's not a good learning/improvement tool imo.  This could easily be resolved by reducing the penalty for correctly answered problems to say, 1 point, which would make the TT more balanced imo.

There is nothing wrong with Tactics Trainer. It is exactly the same as blitz mode on other sites. I use both, and also use books. Chess.com could improve, of course, offering multiple modes.

Yes but purely doing the tactics in blitz mode...in my opinion is not as helpful as solving the problems in standard mode.  So if chess.com is only going to offer one option it should aim for somewhere in between imo.

And to add to it, some of the puzzles are grossly underrated and incomplete. Case in point, check out this puzzle : http://www.chess.com/tactics/?id=40962. Its rated 1500. The real combination(when I verified with houdini) is like 14 moves deep. And the solution provided is just a single move. Shocking! I got so pissed off after seeing this!  chess.com tactics is simply not at the level of chesstempo :(

I have tried to develop a method for making my chess moves: 1. what is the threat; 2. what are my candidate moves; 3. is my move safe; etc, etc. I have found that using the TT and trying to "beat the clock" gets me away from using my method and, for me, develops bad habits carried over to my games (shoot first than aim).

I've tried using the nonrated option for TT and setting a range for the puzzles but a bug in TT keeps the puzzles around 1200 no matter what the range setting.

My latest approach is to take my time, use my method to continue to develop good habits for games and not pay any attention to my rating.

While this works for me, I realize it is only one approach allowed by the flexibility of chess.com and their TT.

I think that Chess.com should offer multiple modes. As for which is more helpful, it depends on your training needs.

Chess competition has time pressure so it makes sense that training should. On the other hand, guessing can be counter-productive. One should strive for accuracy, and then find accurate moves quickly.

For learning tactics, books (ebooks or the print variety) should be the strating point. Websites and iOS apps do add value, however. All players benefit from introducing variety into their training.

My blog post, "Training Log: Taxing Efforts", offers a snapshot for how Chess.com's TT fits into a program of study.

Tactics Trainer has multiple modes. You can turn the timer off and set the threshhold. If you want to practice mate-in-ones, set it to 500-600. You are are a bit better, set it to 2000-2100.

I've tried this and the puzzles seemed to hover around 1200 no matter what range I would set. I contacted Chess.com staff and was told this is a known bug and will be addressed.

Chicken_Monster, are you saying setting a range with the clock off (nonrated mode) works now?

I've read from staff that the long promised "you will never again lose points for a correct answer" improvement has finally been implemented over at V3.  You may not gain any points if you take too long, but you won't lose any either.  Has anyone checked it out?

Just tried it. One move tactic, I waited and waited, clicked the move. It was correct, problem solved, result -5 points.

I use it every day. I also use CT.

I have not encountered this bug.

It has been working for at least a month. Someone told me about it -- a chess coach.

This is what you do. You go to LEARN-->TACTICS TRAINER.

Then, DO NOT hit START TRAINING. Hit CUSTOMIZE.

Next, change the TRAINING MODE to UNRATED.

You will then see a threshold area -- two boxes. Actually, it says Rating Range Min  ____ Max ___

Type in 500 for min and 600 for max and it will give all mate-in-ones. No scoring. No timer When you get really god with that, bump it up to 600 min and 700 max, for example.  Any questions let me know. It worked yesterday.

Lied to again.  Oh the horror...

I think of "tactics training" as two separate things.  One, where time doesn't really matter.  This is what I think of as learning.  Try to solve it as long as you want, take your time recognize the motifs, calculate fully, etc.  Again, this mode is for learning (new patterns, calculation skills).

Two, where time matters.  In this mode, you aren't really learning, but practicing/reinforcing patterns.  Think of it as a math class.  In the first part of the class, the teacher will teach a new idea and walk you through it slowly.  The second part of the class is the work/homework where you do practice and reinforce what was taught.

Viewing it this way, the tactics trainer here is pretty good for the second part, but horrible for the first part.  Just use something else for that.

Still a bug. I customized to unrated, entered range 1200 to 1500, saved preferences, did nine puzzles and got nine puzzles rated as follows: 1200, 1204, 1202, 1200, 1200, 1203, 1201, 1205, 1192. Chess.com has told me that this is a known bug. I'll try different ranges and see what happens but for now I'm going back to rated and just not pay any attention to my rating (rationale explained above in comment #11).

i useed to get 16 points for right and only 8 now