Analysis of 5.Nxf7,6,Kf1, 9.d6 Qxd6 10.other moves than Nf7 - Chess Forums

mathijs

Jul 24, 2009

0

#1

This is what I culled from the discussion in the original topic.

mathijs

Jul 25, 2009

0

#2

In most lines black seems to have at least a perpetual. The only lines here where black has no clear draw are B and perhaps the main line.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.
Kf1 Qe7 7. Nxh8 d5 8. exd5 Nd4 9. d6 Qxd6 (A)10.c3
    (B)10. d3!? Bg4 11. Nf7 Qb6 12. Qd2 Be2+ 13. Kxf2 Ng4+ 14. Ke1
        (14. Kg3 Nf5+ 15. Kh3 Nf2#)
    14... Qf6 15. Qxe2 Nxe2 16. Kxe2 Qf2+ 17. Kd1 Qxg2 18. Re1 Nf2+ 19. Kd2
    Ne4+ 20. Ke3 Qf2+ 21. Kxe4 Qxe1+ 22. Be3 Qh4+ 23. Kf3 Qh3+ 24. Ke2 Qxh2+
    With enough compensation for equality)

    (C)10. Be2 Bh4 11. Nc3 Qf8 12. Kg1 Bf2+,13. Kf1 Bh4 Perpetual.)
(A ctd.)10... Bg4 (A1)11. Qa4+
    (A2)11. Nf7?! Qd7! 12. Nxe5 Qf5 13. Be6
        (13. Bd3 Qxe5 14. cxd4 Qxd4 15. Bb5+ c6 16. Qb3 cxb5 17. Qxb5+ Kf8 -+)
    13... Qxe6 14. Nxg4 Nxg4 15. cxd4 O-O-O With a strong attack, e.g.: 16. Qe2
    Qd7 17. Nc3 Rf8 18. d5 Bb6+ 19. Ke1 Re8 20. Ne4 Nf6 21. d3 Qxd5 22. Be3 Nxe4
    23. Bxb6 axb6 24. Kd1 Nc3+ 25. bxc3 Rxe2 26. Kxe2 Qxg2+ -/+)
(A1 ctd.)11... Nd7 12. Kxf2
    (12. Nf7?? Qf6 -+)
12... Qf6+ 13. Ke1
    (13. Kg1 Be2 14. h3 Qf1+ 15. Kh2 Qf4+ 16. Kg1 Perpetual.)
13... O-O-O (A11)14. cxd4
    (A12)14. Nf7!? Nb6 15. Nxd8 Nxa4 16. cxd4
        (16. Nxb7?? Nc2#)
    16...Qh4+ 17. Kf1
        (17. g3?! Qxd8 18. d5 b5 Gives black a strong initiative, e.g.: 19. h3
        bxc4 20. hxg4 Qxd5 21. Rf1 Qg2 22. Rf8+ Kb7 23. Nc3 Nc5)
    17... Qxd8 18. d3 Nxb2!? (does black have more?) 19. Bxb2 Qf6+ 20. Ke1 Qh6
    21. Nc3 Qe3+ 22. Kf1 Qf4+ Perpetual.)

    (A13)14. Rf1? Qh4+ 15. Rf2 Qxh2 Black has a strong, apparently winning attack.
    16. cxd4
        (16. Nf7? Nc5 17. Nxd8 Qh1+ 18. Rf1 Qh4+ 19. Rf2 Ne4 -+)
        (16. Qxa7?? Qg1+ 17. Bf1 Nc2#)
    16...exd4 17. Nc3 dxc3 18. Be2 Qh1+ 19. Rf1 Qh4+ 20. g3 Qxg3+ 21. Rf2 Re8 -/+)
(A11 ctd.)14...exd4 15. Nc3
    (15. Be2? Bxe2
        (15... Re8? 16. Nc3 +-)
    16. Kxe2
        (16. Nc3 Nc5 17. Qxa7 Bg4 -+)
    16... Qe6+ 17. Kd1 Qg4+ 18. Kc2 d3+ 19. Kb3 Nc5+ -+)
15... dxc3 16. Be2 cxb2 17. Rb1 Bxe2
    (17... bxc1=Q+?! 18. Rxc1 Bxe2 19. Kxe2 Kb8 20. Qc4 Qe5+ 21. Kf2
    Rf8+ 22. Nf7 Nb6 23. Kg1 Nxc4 24. Nxe5 Nxe5 +=)
18. Kxe2
    (18. Bxb2? Qf5 19. Kxe2 Re8+ 20. Kd1 Qxb1+ -/+)
18... Qe6+ 19. Kd1 Nc5 20. Qh4 bxc1=Q+ 21. Rxc1 Qxa2 22.Qh3+ Kb8 23. Qc3 b6
24. Rf1 Rxh8 25. Qxg7 Qb3+ 26. Rc2 Qb1+ 27. Rc1 Qb3+ perpetual.

Eternal_Patzer

Jul 28, 2009

0

#3

Gonnosuke wrote:

I'd like to put forward a potential improvement for black in Variation (B):

10.d3 Bg4 11.Nf7 Qe7!?

Inspired by Jerz's brilliant 10...Qe7, the move that seemingly rescued black in the 10.Nf7 line. I believe Qe7 also works well here -- well enough that it might just put a cloud over 10.d3.

12.Qd2 Bh4 13.Nc3

           (13.Qe3!? Be2+ 14.Qxe2 Nxe2 15.Kxe2 e4=)
                  (13...Bh5 14.g3 Ng4 15.Qe4 Qf6+ +/=)

13...b5 14.Nxe5

        (14.Bb3 Nxb3 15.Nd6+ Qxd6 16.axb3 b4=)
        (14.Nxb5 Ne4 15.dxe4 Qf6+ 16.Kg1 Ne2+ 17.Qxe2 Bxe2 18.Nxc7+ Kf8=)
        (14.h3 bxc4 15.hxg4 Qxf7 16.Kg1=)
        (14.Bxb5+ Nxb5 15.Ng5 Nd4 16.h3 Qf8=)

14...0-0-0 15.Nf3

          (15.Nxg4 Rf8=)

15...Nxf3 16.Qe3 Qf8=

Based on these findings I'm going to tentatively conclude that black has nothing to fear after 10.d3.

I haven't had time for a thorough blundercheck of these lines. Maybe Eternal_Patzer can feed them to his monster rig and let us know how they hold up? Of particular interest is move 14 which seems to be a critical position. The subvariations are largely unexplored so it's likely that there's still room for improvement somewhere.

I'm on it! I can tell you already that Rybka's quick take on 10 d3 is that it's inferior to 10 c3. I'll run an overnight anlaysis to confirm.

Eternal_Patzer

Jul 28, 2009

0

#4

Here is Rybka's "Deep Position Analysis" at 13 ply, which offers a few alternate lines. Evaluations are in centipawns, followed by the number of ply. I can't say if these lines are a real improvement or not, but I'm running a deeper analysis overnight.

10. d3 Bg4 11. Nf7 Qe7 12. Qd2 Bh4 13. Nc3 b5

A. 14. Nxe5 O-O-O 15. Nf3

(15. Nxg4 Rf8 16. g3 Ne4+ 17. Kg2 Nxd2 18. Bxd2 [eval -.45,13])

15... Nxf3 16. Qe3 Re8 17. Qxe7 Rxe7 18.Bf4[eval+.33,13]

B. 14. Bb3 Nxb3

(14... b4 15. Qe3 Nxb3 16. axb3 Qxf7 17. g3 bxc3 18. gxh4 [eval +.68,13]

(15. Nd1 Nxb3 16. cxb3 Qxf7 17. Kg1 Bxd1 18. Qxd1 $11 [eval 0,13]

15. axb3

(15. cxb3 Qxf7 16. Kg1 b4 17. Nd1 Bxd1 18. Qxd1 [eval 0,13]

15... Qxf7 16. Kg1 b4 17. Ra5 bxc3 18. Rxe5+ [eval 0,13]

C. 14. Nxb5 Ne4 15. dxe4

(15. Nxc7+ Kf8 16. dxe4 Qf6+ 17. Kg1 Ne2+ 18. Qxe2 [eval -1.61,13]

15... Qf6+ 16. Kg1 Ne2+ 17. Qxe2 Bxe2 18. Nxc7+ [eval -1.61,13]

D. 14. h3 bxc4 15. hxg4

(15. Nxe5 Qxe5 16. hxg4 Nxg4 17. g3 g5 18. Qe1 $11 [eval -.20,13]

15... Qxf7 16. Kg1 g5 17. Rxh4 gxh4 18. Qf2 [eval +.10,13]

E. 14. Bxb5+ Nxb5 15. Nxe5

(15. Ng5 Nd4 16. h3 Qf8 17. Kg1 Qc5 18. Kh2 $15 [eval -.60,13])

15... Qxe5 16. Qe3 Qxe3 17. Bxe3 Nxc3 18. bxc3 [eval -.53,13]

Eternal_Patzer

Jul 28, 2009

0

#5

I got Aquarium for the engine, but I mostly use the Fritz/Rybka interface. This might be a good opportunity for me to finally buckle down and learn my way around Aquarium, so fire away

Eternal_Patzer

Jul 28, 2009

0

#6

Here is Rybka's analysis of the main line. All comments by Rybka, on "verbose" mode. (Apologies for the board format, but it's just too late for me to reformat it.) Granted, this is not real profound stuff, but it's entertaining. (NOTE: There are some additional lines and more comments by Rybka in the Move List)

Conquistador

Mar 9, 2010

0

#7

In the line

1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.c3 Bg4 11.Qa4+ Nd7 12.Kxf2 Qf6+ 13.Ke1

how about the alternative to 13...0-0-0 witb 13...Qh4+?

13...Qh4+ 14.g3 Nf3+ 15.Kf2 Qf6 16.d4 (16.Ke3 Qg5+) 16...Nxd4+ 17.Bf4 0-0-0 with a dangerous attack.

I also like to point out another possibility in the first line with 11...b5 instead of 11...Nd7.

11.Qa4+ b5 12.Bxb5+ Nxb5 13.Qxb5+ c6 14.Qc4 Be6 15.Qe2 Bb6 16.Na3 Bg4 17.Qc4 Be6 18.Qa6 (18.Qe2 is a draw) 18...Rd8 and black has compensation.