Are ID/YECs right about anything?

Sort:
TruthMuse
Optimissed wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:

I simply pick and choose my topics, don't you? I do like coding, I spent years in R&D for a semiconductor company working on the back end where we tested the new products before they could be sold. We validated and qualified the next-generation CPU. So truth tables, facts, and validation were my life for nearly 20 years. When I realized I could code in Korn and Perl in the UNIX environment I discovered I could string together my commands, take the outputs of the test, and start the next test with what I needed I became more efficient, turning some jobs that used to take hours touching several testers one at a time for each test, to loading up the nights works once and once done it would write my passdown.

That sounds interesting. I never took my programming anywhere. Because I enjoyed it as a hobby I started a degree in computing around 1991 and after passing the first year with high marks I realised they were trying to teach me something I didn't want to learn. Top-down programming was just starting. They thought they had all the space they would ever need whereas my interest was in writing extremely compact, efficient, fast programs for number-crunching. I was being taught to write inefficient stuff which anyone could understand and therefore modify.

I switched my degree from computing to philosophy. My interest may have served as a role model because my son, who was 4 in 1991, now works in computing as head of a data analysis section. He's finding it interesting and stimulating and the money's good because he has a physics PhD.

Well done

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

There comes a point in the understanding of how natural processes work (/have worked throughout time), when it's fair to say that no reasonable doubt is left and we can say that we know something to be the case. It's an acceptable shorthand.

Do we 'know' that the Earth orbits the Sun, not the other way around ...... yet?

And I'm not the one for whom the enormous spans of time required for multicellular life to arise are a problem: It's those proposing a non-natural explanation who need to make their model fit.

Isaac Newton:

  • "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion."

How it began is very important, suggesting a natural cause is required limits the possiblitys.

stephen_33

All I'm really suggesting is that people propose models of creation (of the Cosmos, through to multicellular life) that are reasonably consistent with what we understand and make sense. That's about it.

That's to say regarding the geologically enormous spans of time involved for essential elements to be created and multicellular life to emerge.

In my experience those who propose divine models of creation tend to sweep such things aside.

TruthMuse

Even I don't worry myself about a divine model of creation, how would they know? It was a singular event, what follows is what the Newton quote was about. The laws of motion can predict where a billiard ball once struck is going given all the variables, but no law ever moves a billiard ball by applying only the law, that requires a stick. (Not the first one to say this, but I don't know who to give the create too)

stephen_33
TruthMuse wrote:

Even I don't worry myself about a divine model of creation, how would they know? It was a singular event, what follows is what the Newton quote was about. The laws of motion can predict where a billiard ball once struck is going given all the variables, but no law ever moves a billiard ball by applying only the law, that requires a stick. (Not the first one to say this, but I don't know who to give the create too)

You seem to have missed my point because I wasn't calling on 'god' believers to explain exactly how the 'singular event' of the start of creation took place, I'm asking them to place that supposed event within the context of the immense period of time it then took to bring multicellular life into existence. Even longer if you believe the purpose of creation was to bring our species into existence!

I've yet to see a person of faith even attempt to do that.

TruthMuse

A creation model (biblical one at least) would have had all life forms fully formed at the start and after the curse instead of evolving upward into a more complex life, there would have more than likely been degradation in each life losing genetic information for new distinct life to appear. This is also a scary proposition since that means all life is winding down and not up over time. It would also fit with what we know about entropy and show us how some viruses became deadly that were not before.

stephen_33
TruthMuse wrote:

A creation model (biblical one at least) would have had all life forms fully formed at the start and after the curse instead of evolving upward into a more complex life, ....

Is that what you believe? You are a Creationist?

TruthMuse

Yes losing information is changing a life form and fits what we see in the universe. I doubt that this will be acceptable to those who believe in deep time. Which is why I don’t concern myself with time, it is not something we can prove but can give reasons for what we think, anyone can give reasons for what they think.

stephen_33

It's well past the time when it was possible to argue against the theoretical age of the Universe and/or our Solar System. The only way that scientists can be mistaken about these things is if your deity deliberately intended to deceive Mankind.

Would you say that's likely, given your belief system? Is your 'god' the great deceiver?

TruthMuse

Nothing had to be a deliberate deception, if we make a mistake due to how we look at things, that is on us, not God.

TruthMuse

A deception would be if scripture was false, that would be a deception.

stephen_33

And suddenly I feel as if I'm in a conversation with the guy who insists the Earth is flat, lol.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

And suddenly I feel as if I'm in a conversation with the guy who insists the Earth is flat, lol.

Seriously, this is where you go?

tbwp10

YEC isn't science. It is failed apologetics and an attempt to substantiate what is already believed.