Chess Analysis Board and PGN Editor - ACCESSIBLE, therefore considered FAIR TO USE and NOT CHEATING?

>> I just started joining last year, and like what majority of players said here, that if it's accessible and allowed, therefore it's a FAIR PLAY, and NOT CHEATING, just like my first forum topic about the accessibility of the "Openings and Explore" Database.

>> Now, as I explored, I found out that under the LEARN category, we can access the ANALYSIS feature. It can allow us to load from FEN, and Set Up desired Positions that we want to analyze. It contains "Evaluation Bar", "Engine Lines", "Suggestion Arrow", and "Move Feedback" for those who are Premium members. With these, it will give you the top 5 engine lines, and more lines for those with Premium membership.

>> I found this a very good tool for learning especially for those player like me who's trying to learn, improve and be better. In my own opinion. I would prefer using this if we are studying our past games, and games we have that are already finished. Though I have not really used this, since after all my Daily Games ends, there will be a "REVIEW" button available to be clicked for me to analyze and review the mistakes I did, and what move could have been better.

>> Since I was curious to know if there are possible loop-hole with this feature "Chess Analysis Board and PGN Editor" that can be taken advantage of or exploited by others, I tried opening this page on another tab in my browser, and it did allow me to use it, while my main or first tab can possibly open any active or on-going games I have.

>> I'm just torn about this, and in my honest opinion would lean towards this matter as CHEATING when used in active games whether it be Vote Chess, Daily, Rapid, etc..

>> Though if I may suggest, I would somehow like chess.com to make this feature auto-disabled if it detects that a player's account still has/have active games in progress, and will be auto-enabled if it detects that a player's account has no more active games. Or at least restrict players from opening multiple tabs in the browser to avoid exploitation of this feature when they will be opening and playing their active games.

>> Anyway, in the end that is not mine to decide.

>> So, since this is allowed, and accessible, can this be considered FAIR PLAY? And if this is a form of CHEATING, why is it allowed to be accessed in the first place, and why is there no security in place to avoid being exploited?

>> Additional thoughts: How can we avoid or detect other players from using this kind of tactics against us? If this is written in the fair play policy, how come they allow it to be accessible, despite knowing that this can possibly be exploited by others, whether by Non-Premium and Premium members.

>> Please feel free to share your thoughts and opinion. Thank You!

.

Use of an engine in any ongoing games against other members is against the fair play policy.

https://support.chess.com/en/articles/8568369-what-do-i-need-to-know-about-fair-play-on-chess-com

I know these 2 years ago-_-

Thanks Just_Arnz, that was very interesting. Unfortunately that feature isn't available to me to inspect.

I formally request that chess.com take a closer look at the features permitted to premium players and make, at the very least, a clear and official policy about their usage, if not a modification to the code as mentioned by just_arnz above.

Whoops, took me too long to think about my response!

I see you are the moderator here. Is this an official notice that the Chess Analysis Board and PGN Editor is not to be used while players are playing games? or does it mean that it cannot be used to analyze ongoing games even when they are not open? Does it also mean that Chess Analysis Board and PGN Editors cannot be used to analyze our games on other sites as well?

That url contained the following:

You may not seek opinions from an engine or another person regarding the opening database, tablebases, self-preparation, or analysis related to a specific game in progress on Chess.com.

Does this mean that we cannot have people give opinions about the chess.com opening database etc. or does it only refer to getting information about such from people not currently in the vote game membership? In other words, can people refer to opening databases in vote chess?

congratulations, you figured out how cheating 101 works

You can not use an engine in any ongoing games against another member. In Daily games you can use an analysis board, without an engine or evaluation functions. In live games, you can't use either.

In vote chess you can discuss positions among your club members that are part of the game. Vote chess has the same rules as Daily when it comes to databases

https://support.chess.com/en/articles/8614177-how-do-i-play-vote-chess

Use of an engine in-game is very obviously and clearly cheating. I'm really not sure what there is to discuss.

It is easy to understand how young players today, who have never known a time without computer internet, would be confused as to what chess.com's platform is simulating in the "correspondence chess" of chess yore.

Imagine the young Paul Keres (born in 1916, already famous in correspondence chess at the age of 19) playing first board for Estonia at the Warsaw Olympiad in 1935. There were some books on the opening, lots of journals and newspapers featuring master games, and a certain body of theory ("This is how we think the best moves for white and black would go in the Ruy Lopez or Queen's Gambit"). No one knew the absolute truth about these openings--and some would argue that even with computers today we do not.

At the Olympiad, upon sitting down to the board, Keres had only his brain to remember all the theory and games. In his study, playing over a postal game, he had his books to review--but so did everyone else. Today there are lots of online books and databases. Chess.com makes such a database available to its members for use when they sit down to the virtual study room board to play a daily game.

Vote chess simulates the correspondence games between famous city clubs of the Golden Era of Chess. According to Wikipedia: "The French Defence is named after a match played by correspondence between the cities of London and Paris in 1834." Further quoted is St Amant in Le Palaméde (the world's first chess magazine), "It was Jacques Chamouillet, one of the players of the Paris team, who persuaded the others to adopt this defence." You can see how players in a vote chess club on chess.com would be virtually standing around a table discussing the next move, virtual book in hand, and a virtual secretary seated with quill and postcard to record the team's decision.

Perhaps in the near future Chess.com will be a VR site where players can stand around a virtual chess board and speak to one another while deciding on the team's move.

You are describing exporting the game and run it through an engine. It does not matter if it is using chess.com engine or not. The game should not be exported and brought to any analysis board with an engine. The option is there because you can bring any game or position and analyze it, but it is obvious you cannot do that with a game in progress.

The tools are there, its use should not be restricted, it is more depending on each player to use them in alignment with the fair play policy.

https://youtube.com/shorts/hxcDwbroHQg

At the moment Nc3 is played very fast, unlike the main line. Can you solve this? I think so. Lichess doesn't have that problem. Regards.

Unfortunately more and more “players “ are using engines these days here compare to 10 years ago. As I am getting older, I am not getting wiser on chess.com, therefore I am slowly drifting away and moving to lichess

@Just_Arnz spot on 🧐

You hit a nail on the head 🎯

That is why a lot of player's, ratings have dropped 400 points in the last 10 years.

That's why I thought vote chess was safe. Why cheat when you don't get any points or trophies for it?

League tournaments have trophies for vote chess.

Isn't that just for teams not members?