Chess.com Advertising Issue

There's been some discussion about the banner ad that appeared today on chess.com, with a number of Members complaining that this violates the spirit, if not the letter, of their paid membership agreements.  I thought it might be worthwhile to create a Forum topic to air these concerns, and to discuss more generally the issue of a paid course on chess.com.

When I first heard about "Chess.com University," my immediate reaction was, "Wow, $300 per course is too rich for my blood, but I wish chess.com and IM Pruess well."  But on further reflection, I'm siding with those who have expressed concerns.  Is this the first step down a "slippery slope" where the "good stuff" on chess.com cost extra, and we'll see more and more of today's free services moved behind a paid firewall?

I have deep respect for IM Pruess, and I do wish him well.  But with all respect, does this course really require that much more effort/time/creativity than the various Chess Mentor courses, instructional videos, articles, etc., etc. that are offered for "free" to subscribers?  I'm not saying that IM Pruess shouldn't be paid handsomely for his expertise and attention -- he most definitely should.  But I think that he should be paid out of chess.com's subscriber revenues, just as the other course/video/article providers are.  (Of course, chess.com would probably choose to pay IM Pruess significantly more for his courses than they pay, e.g., an article writer; but that's a different conversation.)

Bottom line, although I was very positive toward this new program at first, I now feel that we Members should rise up and say NO PAID COURSES ON CHESS.COM!!

I hope you all find these thoughts provocative, if not agreeable.  I'd love to hear what you think.

Thanks for listening,

ibiwisi/Michael

I am not against the idea of paying for courses, but I don't think I can pay the price they are asking.

But the point of the University is to have small classes! Plus they might have to raise the membership price if they added this stuff in. We always have the next best thing: video lessons and using Fritz instead of an IM to answer our questions!

Fritz will answer our questions?

I strongly agree with ibiwisi

Also with all my respect these lemma "NO PAID COURSES ON CHESS.COM!!" seems senseless. Because, the options are

- Add some courses (which of course should be paid for its value)

- No add anything (maybe it's what you want ¿?)

If you don't want to pay for anything more, it's ok,  none force you to the opposite. Why you don't want to allow that other members receive courses?

hi Michael,

i'm doing the first course, as i usually blaze trails, before hiring others to do the job. then i know what they are up against, how much work it entails, advice for them on how to do it well, etc... i'm not getting payed a single cent extra for doing this course. but i do want to establish whether or not it is possibile to run the course in a way where we bring in enough money to pay a good instructor a wage they can be happy with. you may well know, a lot of chess professionals who are near the top of their field have very little income. some chess business take advantage of that to get them to do work at cheap rates. we're not in that business. we want to show masters the respect they deserve, and to keep them happy. i have some other posts where i've gone over some more details of pay rates.

next point: "Is this the first step down a "slippery slope" where the "good stuff" on chess.com cost extra, and we'll see more and more of today's free services moved behind a paid firewall?" honestly, i don't know where this idea comes from. i've been working on this site for one and a half years now, and i don't know of any free service that has been moved to a pay service. now there might be some little thing, like maybe the archive of games available switched from 40 days to 30 days or something like that that i'm not aware of. surely possible, but please don't call me a liar for that. as far as i know, nothing has been moved from free to pay while i was here.

On the other hand, think of what has been added to the service that people originally bought: it has been much expanded. We bring you more and more all the time for your membership; even free membership gets access to more. so i really don't follow where that "slippery slope" idea comes from.

Finally, the ad. Hey, I might be totally wrong to have posted that ad. I have a class with not enough students to hold. But the 7 or 8 students I have are very excited about the course, and I as instructor am very excited as well. And I was/am desperate to make the class work out somehow. For this reason, I tried putting this ad up for one day in a new spot, hoping it would bring the course to a few more people's attention. Maybe it was out of line, and I apologize. It was certainly not a deeply deeply considered idea. Another alternative was to send out a message or email blast about the new service. I thought that would be more intrusive and held off from that in favor of the banner ad. But maybe I shouldn't have done anything, and just told the students sorry, as I may still have to do tonight.

- David

dystopian, we're pretty easy to reach. at the bottom of every page, there's the help and support link. staff and mods answer questions in live chess and in forums; and answer messages etc. dystopian, have you found it hard to reach me with an issue?

i believe we have a pretty good refund policy, but it's not my specialty. certainly someone would look into it for you.

even when i'm not logged in, i can still see the "help&support" link at the bottom of the page.

also, i know that many people who got banned have successfully contacted us thereafter to discuss, dispute, or understand the reason for their account closure.

I agree, you need lot of help & support, dystopian :)

how could this be considered an ADD ?!? it is the promotion of a service the website has ... THIS website .. not a vendor of some product, not any other third party ... you should learn to make the difference between PROMO and ADD !

I call these people capricious

I don't see what difference it really makes.  Everyone is here by choice.  The chess.com people are very into chess and are very accessible which is one thing I like.  They offer a course for a price.  If it's worth it they will get enough students and the idea will fly.  If the marketplace thinks otherwise the idea will die.  Why would one person say this is good or bad for everyone else?  Let the members decide with their wallets.

In a word, yes.

Do videos and articles answer your questions? Do they look at your homework answers and point out recurring problems with your thinking? Does the creator of the articles and videos show up at a specific time and place to interact with the people receiving instruction?

There's a big difference between one sided "We provide you with a bunch of information, and good luck with learning it" and interactive lessons with a real teacher. This is why chess coaches get (and deserve!) to be paid more than the price of just buying a book.

"i'm doing the first course, as i usually blaze trails, before hiring others to do the job. then i know what they are up against, how much work it entails, advice for them on how to do it well, etc... i'm not getting payed a single cent extra for doing this course. but i do want to establish whether or not it is possibile to run the course in a way where we bring in enough money to pay a good instructor a wage they can be happy with. you may well know, a lot of chess professionals who are near the top of their field have very little income. some chess business take advantage of that to get them to do work at cheap rates. we're not in that business. we want to show masters the respect they deserve, and to keep them happy. i have some other posts where i've gone over some more details of pay rates."- Dpruess, im sorry but after reading this i thought to myself you have never worked hard in your life.

"honestly, i don't know where this idea comes from. i've been working on this site for one and a half years now, and i don't know of any free service that has been moved to a pay service." -Dpruess,  ok really what about chess T.V. it was free for the first week or so then all of a sudden you need to upgrade to watch this, I dont think pruess had anything to do with the change however there was a  change supporting the argument by ibiwisi.

 No one works harder that David.  Without him we wouldn't have the great content on this amazing site.  He deserves a pay rise just for putting up with us lot !

i'm sorry, too. after reading this i was made quite aware that you talk about things before knowing much about them.

i hope you'll not focus on the fact that i'm being snippy there, but on the fact that i'm right, and that you'll take that as useful feedback.

They haven't spent any money in making this group, another ridiculous complaint to sum to the list.

I think we can let them decide how much to charge for everything but if they go to high, people will just start to think this is silly and a waste of money. I know I am on chess.com to have fun and play chess, not to study intensly and pay a lot of money.

People!! Relax. . . get back to your games and enjoy the site.

As for the cost of the class. I can afford it, but can't justify the cost when there's a wealth of information on this site and others. I might be able to justify $50 to $100 for this type of course, but my wife might veto it.  To be honest I truly believe a good price point is $20 per person, but then the instructor may not be able to justify their time to teach the class. I know there's a happy medium there somewhere.

IM Pruess --> Keep blazing new trails! If anything it gets people talking.