Clarification on OTB Blitz Claims

Hi, 
I recently played in a OTB blitz event, with the time control G/5 w. D/0. A disputable scenario occurred:

White has 5 seconds and is down a queen. They are trying to push their pawn to promote. Black is up a queen. Black has no more time to focus on moving. Mutual illegal moves occur. Position passes and black flags first. White calls the flag. Black claims that both sides made an illegal move. White claims that the position had already passed, thus nullifying the illegal moves. The TD’s ruling is that the game is indeed a draw due to the illegal moves, despite the fact that 1. Both players were able to show the TD the exact position, it was not a mess. 2. Both players agreed that the illegal move sequence had passed. 
The TD seemed unsure of themselves when making the ruling. I decided not to pursue my claim because the situation was so silly to begin with, and I was the dirty flagger guy . So, no big deal. But for the future, I was hoping I could receive a clearer explanation. Was the TD’s ruling justified? Your verdict?

Thanks! 

Yeah, pretty sure that wasn't the correct call... If the sequence of illegal moves had already passed, it would be too late to make a claim on them as far as I know. The TD should've ruled in your favor.

sudden death rules would potentially be in play because there's no increment which would open up some claims of probable draws potentially based on the position but in otb i'm pretty sure if someone makes an illegial move that move stands after x number of moves. i'm not remembering the number and would have to look that up but want to say that after at least 10 the position stands and isn't able to be gone back to, but if it is within that window you are supposed to go back to that position usually in at least longer time control events. not sure the rules for blitz there though and that might not be the case. remembering that you can capture kings potentially if an illegial move is made in some otb blitz events, but i'm not sure about the reset rule.

The TD correctly ruled the draw but on incorrect grounds. The draw was due to neither player claiming a win before both flags had fallen without an independent spectator or TD witnessing which flag fell first.

Per USCF Blitz rules:

3b.) If an illegal position is created or an illegal move made without the opponent making a claim, the position stands and a claim not allowed when the opponent has determined a next move.

7c.) Who correctly points out that the opponent’s flag has fallen first, at any time before the game is otherwise ended, provided the player has mating material. Mating Material consists of (at a minimum) two minor pieces, a pawn, a rook, or a queen provided it isn’t a position where one could claim a draw under rule 8. If a player who claims a time forfeit states the claim with claimant’s flag still up, but then fails to stop the clock in time to avoid also exceeding the time limit, the claim will be void, unless the flag fall was observed by a director or independent witness.

P.S. I witnessed a 7c ruling at the tourney I played in this evening.

I agree with @ljvankuiken. Both flags are down, meaning the result should be a draw regardless of whose flag fell first or who called it. Each illegal move must be claimed by immediately stopping the clock and pointing it out to the TD.

@ImprobablePuffins as long as white had time on the clock when calling the flag on black it should be a win for white regardless of prior illegal moves. I think the only chance for black to get a draw would be if white's final move before black flagged was illegal. Even then time is out so I'm not sure if you can call out the illegal move.

@ImprobablePuffins Did White's flag also fall? Some of the commenters seem to think so, but I don't see that clearly said in the original post.

If White's flag was also fallen at the time of the claim it's a draw.

If White's flag hadn't fallen at the time of the claim but fell immediately after because the clock wasn't stopped and no TD was observing the claim is void (and thus it's a draw). If a TD was watching this scenario TD can call it a win for White.

If White made the claim and stopped the clock before White's flag fell it's a win for White.

It's too late to make an illegal move claim after the flag claim has been made.

I broke out my rulebook and went to the blitz specific rules to consider this scenario. I am a USCF Local TD.

I potentially misinterpreted the phrase "black flags first"

The TD was also playing a game during the tournament. I claimed the flag but I only had three seconds left. It was all a blur, so I didn't have time to pause the clock. @Douglas_Stewart I think this response makes sense, and these rules seem to apply to the situation I had.

Thanks, cheers!

You need the read the USCF rule book chapter on blitz chess. It is small, available online and some rules are different than at longer TCs. Illegal moves combined with touching the clock is loss of game. If they make an illegal move, they have until they touch their clock to fix it. USCF Blitz still follows the touch move rule.