d5 instead of Nf6?

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Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

Gordon412 asked in the notes:

I just played 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 as per the forum here. It occurs to me that 5...d5 really might need another look. Thoughts?

Here is the position that Gordon is talking about:

The move is good in principle; black get two pawns in the center and should be better if white simply retreats with Nc3. However, white has the idea of Nxe5!?

 

Am I missing something here?


Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

I just put it into the engine--it seems that Qh5+? gives black a tiny advantage but that Nxc6! gives white a bit under a pawn:



Avatar of LogoCzar

There are lots of traps - mostly for black to avoid - and d5 is not completely refuted, but with perfect play (it is harder for black than white) black should be a pawn down with partial - not full - compensation with the 2 bishops.

d5 was mostly used in the romantic era.

Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine
Gordon1471 wrote:

Repost of my diagram from the other forum:

 



Gordon412, there is a problem with Qd5.After c4! White defends the bishop and wins a tempo on the queen at the same time.

After Qg5 you are no longer threatening bxc6, so I can play something like Ba4:

Avatar of pfren

This is the critical position of the 5...d5 variation. I think that the only line which gives Black trouble is 9.Nxa7+! Bd7 (forced) 10.Bxd7+ Nxd7 (not 10...Kxd7? 11.Qb5+) and now 11.f4!

Analysis should start here. If you can, get Ivan Soklov's book "Ruy Lopez Revisited" where this particular position is scrutinized.

Avatar of LogoCzar

Borrowed from IM Silman, I think this will help.



Avatar of Philipper

I think that 5... d5 is more difficult to play than 5... Nf6 because of the many forced lines.  Although I did play a nice (blitz) game today...

Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

Thanks for the info. I don't think I should trust the computer's assesment here, even thoguh it says white is better by over a pawn. I would love to see the database statistics for this.

Avatar of LogoCzar
5...d5 614
47.1% 28.5% 24.4%