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Do you think GM Dlugy actually cheated in Titled Tuesday?

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VladimirHerceg91

Is it worth it for him? Discuss. 

LogoCzar

It is obviously not worth it for a GM to cheat.

Anyone could cheat, most that get caught and banned.

GM Max Dugly is already very strong and would have no need to cheat.

Also, he has defeated Rybka in blitz. He made a video explaining the game.

VladimirHerceg91

But you have heard about him getting kicked from the last Tuesday's TT right? 

 

VladimirHerceg91

Maybe he wasn't kicked, maybe disconnected. But still seems fishy. 

VladimirHerceg91

Wow. 

I can't believe this. He was my favourite Banter Blitzer.

VladimirHerceg91

That's a fair point. Thoughts Logozar?

LogoCzar

I don't think he cheated.

LogoCzar

Caruana had a 3100+ performance rating once. I have the belief that playing perfect or near perfect chess is attainable - and feasible - for humans (though perhaps not every game)

LogoCzar

I think there is no limit to how well humans can play - and that we should not measure how well they play by comparing moves to engines. Engines make mistakes sometimes. 

I don't want this wonderful game to always be seen as some cold evaluation on a computer screen, if you get what I mean.

LogoCzar

I don't really know how engine correlation works or what people are capable of for that.

I suppose if he was consistently playing better than Magnus in blitz, while having a far worse record - and considering it is speed chess - while not only matching engine accuracy but also engine style (hence the correlation) then it does make sense that he cheated.

Fischer beat over 20 GMs in a row before, and had at least 1 game that had (outside of theory) 100% correlation with stockfish's moves.

Steinitz calculated 10+ move combinations.

Just because someone played a good game - or many good games - doesn't mean they cheated - even with engine correlation.

Then again, this is blitz chess - so him cheating here seems quite likely.

LogoCzar

Caruana was playing a slow time control. Good point.

Cherub_Enjel

It is certainly possible, although not plausible really, when given the statistics. 

Is it more or less likely that Dlugy would win the big lottery or play at the level he did, given his past clean performances? If the former is more likely, I think there's not much more to talk about.

We can't be certain of anything in this world really wink.png, yet we have to make decisions, and often it's clear what the decision should be. 

fewlio

he is a cheating legend...and that has to come with it's own kind of respect and street cred

Cherub_Enjel

Oh yeah - I said certainly possible he's innocent, which is what we'd hope for. But no plausible. 

LogoCzar

How does this engine match thing work?
Can you test some of my serious games with engine match?
I tend to play quite seriously in my 15/10 games vs this specific opponent who I'm friends list, I'd be happy to post some (or all) of our recent slow games in this forum for testing.

VladimirHerceg91
logozar wrote:

How does this engine match thing work?
Can you test some of my serious games with engine match?
I tend to play quite seriously in my 15/10 games vs this specific opponent who I'm friends list, I'd be happy to post some (or all) of our recent slow games in this forum for testing.

When you go on computer analysis. It should give you a CAPS score. 

LogoCzar

I have no intention of checking the computer analysis. I like to think for myself, and I don't know how CAPS compares to engine correlation.

VladimirHerceg91

Man I'm just so sad. I use to watch Max Dlugy's banter blitzes every Monday. Now I won't watch the man, I feel betrayed. I invited him to our club. If there is a place he needs to explain himself, it's here. 

LogoCzar

2QIC

Be more optimistic! 

It is possible for humans to play amazing chess. Kasparov, Fischer, Steinitz, Botvinnik! Many world champions and many other players have been able to play amazing and deep chess.

Chess is not all about engines, which only showed up recently.

As I've said - engines make mistakes.

I'm not even really convinced they understand the opening properly (I can give examples).

fewlio

look we ain't gonna get 12 people on a jury to put him in jail, but I think his normal tournament play was like 35-40 percent engine correlation, so if this was 75 percent, it's probably enough to convict in a civil trial for fraud and misrepresentation!