EL2011 - About the Scoring System

Many group leaders and team admins sending questions regarding the scoring system.

This topic is added to clarifies how it works.

The Scoring System is briefly explained in the tournament rules
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Link: http://www.chess.com/groups/forumview/el2011---tournament-setup-and-rules

It says: "Scoring System: Win = 100 points / Tied = 50 points. Bonus = Share of won games (in percentage) (Unfinished individual games in the team matches are always counted as tied till they are finished. Snapshot and cut off scores are always calculated on basis of this but multiplied with the share of completed games. Final scores will be counted at cut-off by the 31^st of December 2011. No game = No points.)"

The formula in the calculations of points and scores per team in a team match
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Scores = (A + B ) * C

Where:
A = Points for win/tied/loosing (100 points for win, 50 points for tied, o points for loss)
B= Share of won games (between 0% and 100%, where unfinished individual games are counted as tied)
C = Share of completed individual games in the match (between 0% and 100%)

So, as long as the  share of completed games is 0% in a team match, then the teams not get any points at all.

To Be Aware Of
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It will be important for the teams to complete as many games as possible before the end of the year, due to the fact that unfinished games in a team match reduce the amount of scores that given to the teams.

So it means that teams that quickly starting up and finishing team matches are favourized, while teams that do not indirectly gets a penalty.

It's therefore we don't need to have deadlines for the rounds, except for a final deadline as of 31st of December, when challenges should be sent or accepted, or rosters locked, since it up to the teams to go ahead as forcing all matches and individual games within them as quickly as possible. 

By the 31st of December will we simply cutoff this tournament, and get the final results and standings due to the results in all finished team matches as well as all still ongoing team matches at that very moment.

Futher clarifications or changes
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We won't change the scoring system during ongoing season. However, we might need to make further clarifications.

Considerations for next season
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It seem like the scoring system works well, but it's also important that people understand it and is accepted by a majority of the teams.
It will be possible having comments upon tournament setup for next season later on during the Autumn. But principly is the main proposal to proceed with same format for next season as has been applied for this season, maybe with some minor improvements applied as well.The scoring system is currently proposed to be applied - with minor improvements applied - for European League and also for the World League. 

Its hard to find a more fair scoring system, that strike a balance giving a favour to teams that starting up and finishing teams due to deadlines, and penalties for teams do not.  It also give an opportunity to let the teams starting up their games according to a schedule that are more suitable for them compared to in many other tournaments where the teams sometimes are forced to startup games at moments that might not are so good for all of them.

However, any opinions or creative alternatives are welcome and valuable, and are to be considered!

More info needed?
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Please feel free asking more question in this forum. I'll try to answer them! 

Any chance for a division 4 with team matches against each other next season? At the moment it looks like we (Team Norway) will not relegate, but relegation has been seen as a disaster for us - and probably will be by whoever relegates - since division 4 is not a real division at this point.

Division 4 is something special that unfortunately cannot be properly compered with Division 1-3.

Why?

The teams in Division 4 has been placed here due to different circumstances; they may not were founded when the season started, they may didn't wanted to participate this very season, may had or have no or very few active members or no team admin, they may declined/withdrawed/become disqualified from higher division last season or during ongoing season etc...

Some of the teams in the current Division 4 are really competetive ones, and should have good opportunities to win many games in the higher divisions. For example BULGARIA is currently one of the strongest European country teams. When the season started was they not even respresented in Division 4. However, Team Bulgaria, another team from Bulgaria was represented and also a very strong team, but the current rules says that only the higest rated country teams within a country is to represent that country for next season. So in this case there is not only a qualification between ongoing between country teams from different countries. It's also a place for qualification between teams from the same countries, which of them that should representing the country for next season.

Division 4 is currently a qualificiation group, that belongs of teams that may or may not are interested playing in Division 3 for next season but of course must be qualified for that.

Changing this for next season?

There is a need of a "qualification group" for teams that this season by different reason not want or not are allowed or by other reasons not qualifies to playing games in the higher divisions. However, we may could consider to include some games between teams in this division as a part of a qualification procedure. Let us cover that opportunity when it's time to create a proposal for next season.

System is good and sould be applied in WL in 2012 as well. It is better than actual WL scoring system, because every point counts ! And also we will know shortly results after (cutoff by the 31st of December), in January next year.

I support this idea  :)

[1] All adjustments according closed accounts will be made at cutoff by 31 Dec 2011, am I right Johan ?

[2] What if a player whose acc has been closed will start play over again using a new account ?

[1]: I've currently adjusted results continuously when I'm updating the results. But I will probably switch to do it first when the mathes are finished and at the final cutoff.

[2]: We're not able tracking if players have get their accounts closed coming back and open new accounts. If we believe that specific players doing this, then should we report it to chess.com and let them cover this more in detail and may close their accounts. We will then accordingly adjust the results.

I agree Fejorevecs, in the division 4 there are 4-5 competitive teams.

Although Hungarian Chess Group performed a big progress (1359 11.01.29 - 3048 11.08.12, the 3rd performance in the Division 4), it doesn't seem chance taking partin div.3.

Would be possible qualification matches in the Division 4?

It would be nice if all teams that are able to arrange matches (didn't miss more than, say, a maximum of 2 matches in the previous season) in division 4 were to play each other. It doesn't have to be as big as the other divisions, the goal is just that they actually fight for the right to play in division 3, rather than promote based on old team match activity (in some teams' cases, several years back). I don't see why quantity of team matches in the past should have any influence on a division system.

If division 4 has too many active teams (e.g. more than the higher divisions), then division 4 can be normal and division 5 can be small.

@JohanPalmær

Now i have found this forum. i think this is the right place for my suggestion now. 

please accept my apologizes for putting my suggestions first into the wrong forum due to that it took me some time to see such a forum is already created.

your scoring system is mathematically and some times practically awarding smaller games, when penalizing the bigger games in this formula.

please assume that i'm not representing any team and am not talking about the 2011 season.

Hi.

It's important for the teams starting up and finish their matches quickly and winng these matches, and it's important for every single player in the matches to win their matches as quickly as possible. It's for sure a true challenge for all teams and all participating players. It's all according to the basic principles for EL.

However, improvements or alternative methods may are reasonable to consider for next season (EL2012). I'm open for serious suggestions.

Please think about this.

A * (A+B) * T

A: won points 

B: lost points 

T: number of players

with this formula you don't need to adjust the unfinished games.

you can divide the result to a constant for simplification. 

with some samplings we can improve this main formula.

principals of the formula:

• number of individual wins has a positive effect to the score.
• number of finished games has a positive effect to the score.
• number of players in game has a positive effect to the score.

I'm sorry, but I don't fully understand the formula.

Isn't A+B = T/2 ? And if so, then would you have A + T/2 + T => A + 1,5T

That actually doesn't seem reasonable. That would mean that a team that do not win any game (A=0) would get 1,5T points. Why should a team get so many points without winning any games at all? That isn't fair against all other teams.

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Secondly, why shouldn't unfinished games be awarded at all? The unfinished games are often the most exiting ones between the most valuable players in the teams. It seem more reasonable counting such games as tied, but give a minor penalty by reducing scores due to incompleteness.

A: won points from finished games

B: lost points from finished games

T: total number of games (finished or not doesn't matter)

if A=0;  A * (A+B) * T = 0

if all games are finished; "A+B = T" , otherwise "A+B < T"

unfinished games are counted in "T" , this is the award.

and as long as  "A+B < T "  you won't get maximum points from that teammatch, this is the penalty.

i don't say this is the final shape of formula but i'm trying to add all principals correctly in it. and of course this is not the only alternative i or someone else can advise. i may introduce some other variations based on this principals.

here is one of them.

A  + A*(A+B)*T/36.000   for div.1

A  + A*(A+B)*T/16.000   for div.2

A  + A*(A+B)*T/4.000     for div.3 

Now I better understand the formula. Thanks.

Johan, please consider my post about letting active and reliable division 4 teams play each other for the right to promote to division 3, rather than just promoting based on old activity.

To Omer_Hayyam:

My current thoughts rather more goes in a direction like this:

* Every single team match gives a total score (S-tot) for both teams together that are depending upon the number of participants per team (P) and the number of finished games within the match (F).

* The total scores (S-tot) is then distributed between the teams due to the current results (R), where all unfinished games (U) are counted as tied.

This statements indicate some important principles:
- larger matches should give more scores than smaller matches
- more completed matches should get more scores than less completed matches
- winning teams should get more scores than loosing teams
- unfinished games in the team matches should also be awarded.

The questions now is
1/ how to calculate the total scores that should be distributed to the opponent teams in a team match? 
2/ how to distribute them between the opponent teams in a team match?

I've some thoughts about how to do this, but there seem to exists different options that each one have its prons and cons. Would like to gathering this more carefully, but are also open for certain input and suggestions.

@Johan, two questions to be more clear.

1.) why do you want to count unfinished games as tied?  

i doubt, losers will not resign their games. 

2.) if larger matches give more points than smaller matches, isn't that an enough award to unfinished games?

 Answers:

1/ How should they otherwise be counted? It's hard to - with reasonable effort - consider any of the opponents as a winner vs looser since the games are unfinished. Most fair seem to be count these unfinished games as tied.

2/ Yes, it may could be.

I'm currently wondering about a formula for calculating scores for a team in a team match:

S = (F / 2P) * (2P + W - L), where

S = Scores for a team in the match
F = Number of finished games in the match, i.e. = W + L
P = Number of players for the team in the match
W = Number of wins for the team in the match
L = Number of loss for the team in the match

Every single match could at maximum giving the both teams together the scoring of P. Unfinished matches giving less than finished matches. Winners getting more than loosers.

Example 1:
A finished tied team match, where P=50, W=50, L=50 ==>
((50+50)/(2*50)) * (2*50+50-50) = 100

Example 2:
A finished won team match, where P=50, W=80, L=20 ==>
((80+20)/(2*50)) * (2*50 + 80 - 20) =160

Example 3:
An unfinished but tied team match, where P=50, W=25, L=25 ==>
((25+25)/(2*50)) * (2*50 + 25 - 25) = 50

Example 4:
An unfinished team match, where P=50, W=40, L=10 ==>
((40+10)/(2*50)) * (2*50 + 40 -10) = 65

Example 5:
An unfinished team, where P =50, W=10, L=40  ==>
((10+40)/(2*50)) * (2*50 + 10 - 40) = 35

I believe this would work pretty fine!?

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Note! I've recently updated the examples!

S = (F / 2P) * (2P + W - L)  ?    or     S = (F / P) * (2P + W - L)

which one did you use for your sampling?

another issue; mathematically you should never use good variables as subtrahend or divisor. because good things should never give negative effect to the result.

good variables in a teammatch are won points and number of players in the game.

bad variable is lost points.

Thanks for your observation! I've now made certain corrections within my examples!