Every move is important. One more example

Sort:
BabYagun

Red: terjanq (2747)

Yellow: BabYagun (2032)

 

Idea of the 4th yellow move (c) terjanq, all rights reserved.

 

[Variant "teams"]
[Comments ""]

1. h2-h3 .. b7-c7 .. g13-g12 .. m8-l8
2. Qg1-j4 .. Qa7-b7 .. Qh14-e11 .. Qn8-m8
3. Bi1-h2 .. Na10-c9 .. Bf14-g13 .. Qm8-l9
4. Nj1-i3 .. Nc9-e10 .. Qe11xNe10 .. Ql9-l10
5. Qj4-e4 .. Qb7xQe4 .. Qe10xBa6 .. Ql10xi13
6. f2-f3 (or any other move)

 

http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=NY4xDoMwDEX3nCJid4QT2oSV7khZuqAOAQEJIlQqDBy_Tmi3Z_v5293TfYLbDl4co4t78WLd4x3juB07L6hiKLiX4BUXgvcaBp1gRgUzyoTRwGqYFNzOCEuVWtZp6LNnPVYwImbeDETDlOBNQPB5uXVYwlAnbCZSKTerKbRmFQkLQsi9dqgpqcxjSjzbf7HWsGLJboQLHbs-6PVpf0je2bj75RIHVOwu-CRhUl8:21

icystun

What about 4. Ql11 from green? Seems to cause issues for yellow and red. 

I think yellow and red has forced moves to survive, but it's not clear that they get the upper hand, on the contrary. It seems winning for blue and green.

 

Example...http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=NY-xDoMwDET3fEXE7ghDKMlKd6QsXVCHEFEgJVQqDP38OgG2O_vuWe4e9jvbdefZPtiwZU_W3T8hDOu-8YwcqwSfCphKLgTva3B1FCOWMGIRZVCwKHYT3IwIXsaRsTX0KWcmlDAgJr0qCIrVgjczwpTKrcUcnI6yeVGUuCkaoZopCniEOc1ap4mUpzURf-1lFg0LItMkPR2TB7cCJ89sDu8rSj1DhmEeNzKZA07NdMbTZ_78jMD6Dw:24

terjanq
icystun wrote:

What about 4. Ql11 from green? Seems to cause issues for yellow and red. 

I think yellow and red has forced moves to survive, but it's not clear that they get the upper hand, on the contrary. It seems winning for blue and green.

 

Example...http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=NY-xDoMwDET3fEXE7ghDKMlKd6QsXVCHEFEgJVQqDP38OgG2O_vuWe4e9jvbdefZPtiwZU_W3T8hDOu-8YwcqwSfCphKLgTva3B1FCOWMGIRZVCwKHYT3IwIXsaRsTX0KWcmlDAgJr0qCIrVgjczwpTKrcUcnI6yeVGUuCkaoZopCniEOc1ap4mUpzURf-1lFg0LItMkPR2TB7cCJ89sDu8rSj1DhmEeNzKZA07NdMbTZ_78jMD6Dw:24

 

5y. Qh7.

 

Just free Knight and better position.

icystun

Yes, I saw this move after I posted, and it's better, but still there are other ways to try for green and blue. Red and yellow are hanging in there by the smallest of margin.

 

It's not just a free knight and better position though, more like free knight and lost position.

icystun

For instance, what about this one? 4g. Bi4,  red and yellow totally lost, being down a queen for two pieces.

 

http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=LYyxDsMgDER3vsJiN4oTpMBKd6QsXaIOJEoDUaFSk6GfX7C6vTuf33wPnxTKBfLaQj7lQ8y3d85buU6QNQlSEHuMAygFy4jr2GCnAXfqG2aDLyN6BdNOeOhWTWHEhXdTJI0bEXMxmI0YFLhEGPnZB-pwtQ3ds06rl6dNaoWug4MwcedXW00dn6vx6__BFYtJ_wA:16

terjanq


I forgot about this move indeed, But it's far from being completely lost

icystun

In practical play maybe not, but it has to be objectively.

GoodKnight0BadBishop

I have a question: 

HOW COME TERJANQ IS RATED 2747??

terjanq
icystun wrote:

In practical play maybe not, but it has to be objectively.


Green and blue are better, but it's not totally lost for red and yellow. Example continuation: 

1. h2-h3 .. b7-c7 .. g13-g12 .. m8-l8
2. Qg1-j4 .. Qa7-b7 .. Qh14-e11 .. Qn8-m8
3. Bi1-h2 .. Na10-c9 .. Bf14-g13 .. Qm8-l9
4. Nj1-i3 .. Nc9-e10 .. Qe11xNe10 .. Bn9-i4
5. Qj4xBi4 .. Qb7xQe10 .. d13-d11 .. Nn10-m8
6. Qi4-g6 .. Qe10-b7 .. Rd14-d12 .. Ql9-j7
7. Qg6-g5

Green and blue still have some problems with developing, and yellow and red keep some activity in the meanwhile. 



BabYagun
GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:

I have a question: 

HOW COME TERJANQ IS RATED 2747??

 

When I played with him he earned +1 per game for a win. If he plays with a 1700 teammate he earns like +2 or +3 for a win if the opponents have high rating. And when he loses a game he loses like -25.

 

So, if we assume that he almost never loses then to go from 2100 to 2700+ he needed to play around 400 games. If he plays 20 games a day, it is 20 days. It is not a problem, especially when games against weak players take 6-10 moves. (However in that particular game above the blue player was near 1850.)

 

This is the answer. Play a lot and always win.

icystun

@terjanq: 6b. Qxe13, why would blue go passive. It loses another rook for yellow and red. Clearly over.

http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=LVC7koQgEMz5Csp8KFFQSdncKja4ZOsCX6uocFW3Bnz-DmDWM_T0g9fP8G8Hf9HiWgb3KX7J6_Hn3OKvDy1wIpzRrYKtpozRsYWpjWDlNay8itB1cHakYtSsHHYRV2ZoYUw8s3EBC-cJ-w5cR2pGteWwpeN-4CVMKkL9RirqJmoUVUQgYedg066fFCqV6RkVQ38P2iuwgkhc7yJomxOMbTA3Ycasc47Qe7TDDA0yLLo1t1oZlmysY7F3LmZOBYcibWzWwJS4owwmI4xbRYt05iScknRoYGvYZW4mYUpZNJLC0-dch0J5QRSjRwVH_lTMNPPyCw:34

 

Just in case...here is another trick. It's all over.

http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=PVHLboUgEN3zFcT9GEcpyNYum5jYRTc3XQgqYq426XXB53d4pLuZw-E84PE1__r5unl1r_P5qr7Z4_3nPNfrfvGKNoY131vYO17X3CiwKg4OO3DYxvHs4dmztuaTQzhEhKZZgUm8aUcBK2Karx7OnnU1HzzCni6PMzZgdRyHjaikm6hRVDNBhAPBJ2y0mpSadEyKYSzLcGnwgr0RfIgw-JzAqDAVwkJZlxxhvMiOMkhieHKTRa0JazYmUQFbLjY9yVAzFZvJYBLXKlhSsc8lFctmqw6Tkaynd2nBFYxcbXElwf_oRoatZTr1BZeNiAdWFv8Glj6hW0tJGDZEpQ9w-Q2tDEO-9eEowV4SbEgw_gE:40

Alternatively, yellow can sac two pieces to prolong the game:

http://www.smartbridge6.nine.ch/.4pcp/?pgn=PZE9c4QgEIZ7fgVjv46LRqD1emewSHOTQhRR5zQzOQt-fhYw6Zbl8f3A5-f4s43nxYvLjce7-GLPx_dxuPN684JODEu-ClhrXpbcSphkHDzW4FHE8VDwUkyU3HiEvYkrM0qwiTMrNuAQ03wqOBSrS95tCGv6uB-xgknHsVsIJd2ERlHNGgJ2hC3t-kmTUpWuSTH096E7NWwN-6D13oRuywmsDOYGZso65wj9SXaUoSViI7f2VquCy8Yk2sCSi5kXGWomY7M22MROEuZUbJhTsWzmdDC2ZYreRYC_d-Q63a4k-B_dtmERTKe-4LMRcTC1t__fe5hFUBKGFaH0A3ySsir0-XqISZ3KJIbOC4aYBILJsrMMg1O_:42

 

terjanq

But the idea is, that blue cannot take there:

1. h2-h3 .. b7-c7 .. g13-g12 .. m8-l8
2. Qg1-j4 .. Qa7-b7 .. Qh14-e11 .. Qn8-m8
3. Bi1-h2 .. Na10-c9 .. Bf14-g13 .. Qm8-l9
4. Nj1-i3 .. Nc9-e10 .. Qe11xNe10 .. Bn9-i4
5. Qj4xBi4 .. Qb7xQe10 .. d13-d11 .. Nn10-m8
6. Qi4-g6 .. Qe10xe13 .. Rd14-d13 .. Ql9-k9
7. Qg6xb6

And some more aggressive variant  for g&b

1. h2-h3 .. b7-c7 .. g13-g12 .. m8-l8
2. Qg1-j4 .. Qa7-b7 .. Qh14-e11 .. Qn8-m8
3. Bi1-h2 .. Na10-c9 .. Bf14-g13 .. Qm8-l9
4. Nj1-i3 .. Nc9-e10 .. Qe11xNe10 .. Bn9-i4
5. Qj4xBi4 .. Qb7xQe10 .. d13-d11 .. Nn10-m8
6. Qi4-g6 .. Qe10xe13 .. Rd14-d13 .. Ql9-e9
7. Qg6-e4 .. Na5-c6 .. Rd13xQe13 .. Qe9xQe4
8. Ni3-j5 .. Nc6-e7 .. Re13xNe7 .. Qe4xRe7
9. Nj5-l6 .. Ba6xg12 .. h13xBg12 .. m5xNl6
10. Bh2-i3

But it's 2 bishops and knight for queen and rook now happy.png It just proves that this game is not obviously lost, and a lot of moves has to be played. And, to not forget it's 1minute game... everything can happen

icystun

Why would you play Ql9-k9 for green. Clearly a bad move. Qe9 from green and you are still lost.

terjanq

Look at second variant ... 

icystun

Yes, I looked (I already had that covered before I commented Bi4), still winning for blue and green. At least we have settled it was not a free knight to begin with. I think it wins for blue and green, but the game still goes on. Quite different from what the initial proposed evaluation was...

 

In the second variation green and blue can save a piece by playing 7b. d5 and and next 8b. e5 to block (although your variation may be better). Still, it might be safer to just go defensive for a while like you proposed.

terjanq

Covering with pawn is bad, in my example, blue&green got rook + queen for 2bishops and knight, it was just to show how tactical position can get. I can just exchange one queen and activate my rook, and it's much quicker than in continuation I have proposed and I would definitely choose something different (comparing outcomes) if I was g&b

Another interesting continuation for green and blue: 
1. h2-h3 .. b7-c7 .. g13-g12 .. m8-l8
2. Qg1-j4 .. Qa7-b7 .. Qh14-e11 .. Qn8-m8
3. Bi1-h2 .. Na10-c9 .. Bf14-g13 .. Qm8-l9
4. Nj1-i3 .. Nc9-e10 .. Qe11xNe10 .. Bn9-i4
5. Qj4xBi4 .. Qb7xQe10 .. d13-d11 .. Nn10-m8
6. Qi4-g6 .. Qe10-f9 .. Nj14-i12 .. Ql9-i6

But green is now without queen and bishop, could be some issue in the later game.

Obviously, I blundered bishop move and I didn't post this game here, so I don't understand why am I being even attacked.

icystun

You are attacking yourself. We are just discussing variations, trying to find good moves in such a tactical position. That's very challenging and it has more complexity than regular chess which is why I love it. Materially red and yellow "sacrificed" one queen for two bishops, which can be good or bad depending on piece placement. In 4 player it's almost an advantage to have open files, even at the cost of several pawns, which is why blue and green is having a hard time converting quickly. Especially green has nothing to work with, so the queens has to keep attacking things, but if it does not break through, then it will be a long game, and the minor pieces become stronger.

BabYagun

Time is important. They move the knight to a square protected by queen and bishop and do not expect yellow to take it. But yellow takes it and they need to find a good move in a new position. As a result they lose time and then need to think faster. It is a blitz game.

icystun

Of course time is a factor, but that has nothing to do with objectivity. You can play blitz openings as much as you want, but mental search for the "truth" is one of the things I love about chess. Your team's move was hard to counter, but there was a defense. It makes little sense for me to change this to a time argument, but I do have one question. If you saw the defense Bi4, would you still gamble your opponents did not see it and take the knight? I would not.

terjanq

Depends on my opponents, I gamble a lot, it makes the game more fun for me. As long as it's not instant losing of course, and as I showed there was still a lot of tactics, and very hard moves for b&g to find, like the idea with Qe9 which has you proposed.