Evolution vs. creationism in US public schools

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PetecantbeatmeSLFL
stephen_33 wrote:
LHCSaraB wrote:

Teaching creationism in schools

But the question is did you attend one? I'm guessing you were home-schooled, yes?

It does not matter.

varelse1
LHCSaraB wrote:

Well, both. Teaching them (creationism and evolution) side by side is valuable so people can evaluate both sides before taking their stance. Give than the facts of both sides and let them decide.

You have to admit it is ironic, that Creationists should be screaming "censorship!!" today, after they spent so many decades trying to keep Evolution out of schools.

Fighting it tooth and nail, in fact.

Destroyer942
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I think you should be able to learn all the popular theories in school and pick what you will believe.

We do not want a bounch of obedient little brainwashed comrades that only learned government endorced information. They both should be tought

I see what you're saying, and I don't like government propaganda either. However if there is a widely accepted scientific theory that explains the development of life let them teach it. I would much rather resist other things, such as their push against traditional family values.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
Destroyer942 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I think you should be able to learn all the popular theories in school and pick what you will believe.

We do not want a bounch of obedient little brainwashed comrades that only learned government endorced information. They both should be tought

I see what you're saying, and I don't like government propaganda either. However if there is a widely accepted scientific theory that explains the development of life let them teach it. I would much rather resist other things, such as their push against traditional family values.

I said ALL popular theories. That includes evolution but it also includes creation. Other wise the government is brainwashing people against the Bible(as I see it) and I hate that.

PyriteDragon
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I think you should be able to learn all the popular theories in school and pick what you will believe.

We do not want a bounch of obedient little brainwashed comrades that only learned government endorced information. They both should be tought

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t know if you’ve ever learned about the US constitution, but there are certain things that our entire country has been founded upon, and the things that we take pride in as a country, one thing being the first amendment. Part of the first amendment is the establishment clause, that separates religion and government. Public schools are funded through the government, through taxpayers money, and so must be consistent with the constitution. And I don’t really know what you mean when you say “brainwashed.” It’s all a relative term that anyone can use on anyone whose views come from a completely different ideology. If you want to take that short cut, words with very little back up, then be my guest. But don’t expect me to bow down and say that I’m unworthy and that I have lost the argument.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL

The separation of church and state is not in the constitution, it was in a letter a 1 founding father sent to someone and it just means that the government can't force you to believe any one religion. It does not mean that religion can't be in government or government building ect. This is obvious. When we swear in a new president he puts his hand on the Bible and it says "in God we trust" on coins, and our current President mentions God often. We can constitutionality have God in our government 

varelse1

The reason Evolution is taught in schools, and YE Creationism is not, is because Evolution is the only one that has evidence to support it.

And it has a lot of that.

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I think you should be able to learn all the popular theories in school and pick what you will believe.

We do not want a bounch of obedient little brainwashed comrades that only learned government endorced information. They both should be tought

Not as equivalents! Creationism is a dogma driven reaction to evolutionary theory. The latter is a well established scientific theory supported by a substantial body of evidence.

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:
LHCSaraB wrote:

Teaching creationism in schools

But the question is did you attend one? I'm guessing you were home-schooled, yes?

It does not matter.

It matters to the extent that a person might not be so well informed if they've received a limited or religiously 'skewed' education?

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I said ALL popular theories. That includes evolution but it also includes creation. Other wise the government is brainwashing people against the Bible(as I see it) and I hate that.

I heard that the aboriginal people of Australia believe that the Universe was vomited out of the mouth of a giant creator snake. Creationism is no more a theory than that.

Creationism belongs in Bible studies, not in any pseudo-scientific setting. No government is trying to impose some agenda when it sets the teaching of what is the best & most widely accepted, evidence supported, explanation of the diversity of life on Earth!

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
varelse1 wrote:

The reason Evolution is taught in schools, and YE Creationism is not, is because Evolution is the only one that has evidence to support it.

And it has a lot of that.

A lot of people say there is no undeniably proof of evolution. Also you can not disprove creation

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
stephen_33 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I think you should be able to learn all the popular theories in school and pick what you will believe.

We do not want a bounch of obedient little brainwashed comrades that only learned government endorced information. They both should be tought

Not as equivalents! Creationism is a dogma driven reaction to evolutionary theory. The latter is a well established scientific theory supported by a substantial body of evidence.

Reaction? Creationism was around way before evolution 

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
stephen_33 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

I said ALL popular theories. That includes evolution but it also includes creation. Other wise the government is brainwashing people against the Bible(as I see it) and I hate that.

I heard that the aboriginal people of Australia believe that the Universe was vomited out of the mouth of a giant creator snake. Creationism is no more a theory than that.

Creationism belongs in Bible studies, not in any pseudo-scientific setting. No government is trying to impose some agenda when it sets the teaching of what is the best & most widely accepted, evidence supported, explanation of the diversity of life on Earth!

That's only true if you're an atheist. If you believe in God then it's totally reasonable to believe that He created the universe 

PyriteDragon
trump2020maga1 wrote:

The separation of church and state is not in the constitution, it was in a letter a 1 founding father sent to someone and it just means that the government can't force you to believe any one religion. It does not mean that religion can't be in government or government building ect. This is obvious. When we swear in a new president he puts his hand on the Bible and it says "in God we trust" on coins, and our current President mentions God often. We can constitutionality have God in our government 

Unlike you, I actually did my research before posting what I thought I knew about civics. The link below shows what was actually said in the constitution.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:

A lot of people say there is no undeniably proof of evolution. Also you can not disprove creation

You're quite correct - in the absence of a contradiction it isn't possible to disprove creation, or any form of speculation come to that. You read my comment about the creation myth of the Australian aborigines, so try disproving that!

It simply isn't an argument to claim that some explanation of events has credibility because it can't be debunked. An explanation becomes credible when it's supported by evidence.

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:

Reaction? Creationism was around way before evolution 

It depends what brand of creationism you have in mind. The type I thought was meant was modern creationism which is very much geared to trying to trash evolution.

varelse1
trump2020maga1 wrote:
varelse1 wrote:

The reason Evolution is taught in schools, and YE Creationism is not, is because Evolution is the only one that has evidence to support it.

And it has a lot of that.

A lot of people say there is no undeniably proof of evolution. Also you can not disprove creation

Saying there is no "proof" does not change the fact there is evidence.

And no I cannot actually disprove Creationism.

Not like we disproved a 6,000 year old Earth, anyway.

That was easy one to disprove.

stephen_33
trump2020maga1 wrote:

That's only true if you're an atheist. If you believe in God then it's totally reasonable to believe that He created the universe 

The trouble with 'God'-belief is that these kinds of arguments soon become circular: You believe in a deity so it follows for you to believe that your deity created all things.

And just look at the sheer size & complexity of the Cosmos - it simply had to have been created by some immensely powerful being with purpose. Now who could that be? Oh I know - 'God'. And the whole thing's neatly wrapped up with a bow on it.

The trouble is, invoking an all powerful super-being to explain the existence of the Universe doesn't move you an inch forward because you then need to explain how your creator came to exist. And if a magical creator is able to exist without adequate explanation, so is the Universe.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL

Ah yes, the old "where did God come from" question.

He has always been. I'm not sure how that's possible but it beats the "world mad it's self" theory. 

Really there is only 2 options. The universe made itself or God made the universe. In my opinion the second one makes more sense and it is that's what the Bible says. I'm going with "God made the universe"

stephen_33

Either you believe in the principle of causation or you don't. If the Universe had to have had a cause, a beginning, something that made it emerge into 'existence', the same must be true of any other influence or agent involved.

You can't suddenly claim that the 'agent' involved in the creation of our Universe had no cause because it suits you to do so. That's just conjuring - magically invoking something because it's convenient.