1) Shouldn't devision 1 have less teams than division 2. Mayeb top 3 from each group advance. And then after 2016, top 2 from division 2 replace bottom 2 from division 1. And if their are new teams, maybe add the top team from division 2 and put them into division 1.
2) Maybe division 1 have min 10 players, and divison 2 have min 5 players. And anyway, 5 is a number for good luck.
3) Automatic start time sounds great!
Thanks for your comments.
1) It will be easier to sort out fixtures and make sure leagues finish at the same time if the divisions are of equal size. Happy to discuss promotion and relegation numbers.
2) Open to suggestions on player minimums for each division. Matches maybe should be set as one player minimum and teams who fail to make the minimum number lose points on those boards.
3) everybody happy with automatic starts?
4) Do we want the league to expand? Do we want more teams, If so I am happy to do some advertising and to start groups etc on Facebook and Twitter, but it will mean we will need more volunteers to help me run everything if that is to happen.
I support the idea of promotion/relegation, makes it more interesting and I speak as a member of a team that is likely to be on the bottom end of the list of Div 1 at best, and a candidate for a Div 2 team.
Would like to see a min of 5 or 6 players a team to make competition more worthwhile and encourage bigger squads.
Happy with auto starts, is practical and sensible. Also worth putting in the minimum player requirement (currently 4 I think).
We should deffo want the league to expand and be generally promoting it and encouraging more teams to enter. Cup idea is also a great idea I have previously advocated, but maybe we need to focus on building up the league more if we lack volunteers.
Would like to just sign this off by saying I think some individuals and teams can be a bit over competitive at times. Lets always play this in the right spirit.
Please read the proposals for rules for 2016, sorry a bit wordy but hopefully will clarify some grey areas and help things run smoothly in the future, please feel free to comment, and suggest changes. Thanks
2016 UK and Ireland County Championships Rules
1. It will assumed that all the teams participating in the 2015 season will continue to take part in 2016, unless they inform the council.
2. Teams must represent a county or area of the UK or Ireland. The members of the team should have a connection with that county or area listed below. The admin of each group are responsible to make sure their members fit the criteria below.
A) They were born in that county/area.
B) They live or they did live in that county/area.
C) They work or have worked in that area.
D) They play in that county’s chess league.
3. Players can be members of two county groups but a player cannot play for more than one team in the county championship in a single season, even if they are in different divisions. It is the responsibility of the team admins to make sure that their members are aware of this rule. Once a player has played for one team that is his/her team for the rest of the season and any results gained for any other team will be forfeited. If it is unclear who the first team the player played for eg they play for two teams in the same month, then all their results will be forfeited.
4. The league will be divided into 2 divisions, division 1 and 2. At present the top 4 teams of each of group A and group B will make up division 1 and the remainder will form division 2. This will change if any new teams enter the competition. Divisions 1 and 2 will have an equal number of teams in, as far as possible, to help with organising fixtures. If the number of teams in the championship remains below 17 then one team will be promoted from division 2 and one team relegated from division 1.
5. The controller will be responsible for organising the fixtures and compiling the results. In the first instance, any issues or disagreements should be discussed on the county council forum for all to see in an open manner, rather than contacting the controller directly. The controller’s decision after discussion is final. If an issue affects the controller’s team then the matter will be need to be decided by impartial members of the council. Ideally, each division will have its own controller who doesn’t have a team in that division.
6. The deadline for new teams entering the competition will be the 1st of December 2015. Any new teams entering the competition will compete in division 2.
7. The minimum number of players for division 1 matches will set to 8. The minimum number of players for division 2 matches will be 4. But please note point 12 below. Teams can elect to play in division 2 if they don’t think they can field 8 players consistently.
8. There will be one match per month, the fixtures will be published in December 2015, challenges should be sent as close the 1st of the month as possible, and the matches should be locked by the final Saturday of the month. Either team can send the challenge. All matches should have a start time (the final Saturday of the month) included, so the match will start automatically on that date.
9. Matches should be set to 2 concurrent games at, ie play your opponent with white and black at the same time, this speeds up the completion of matches and bring it into line with the international group competition. The aim will be that all matches will be completed by December 2016, in order to start a new competition in 2017.
10. If matches are still in progress on November 30th, then the controller will review the remaining matches and predict the likely result based on the position. If the matches involve the controller’s team or will affect the league position of the controller’s team then another member of the council will be asked to judge.
11. The time limit will remain 3 days per move.
12. When filling out the challenge form the minimum number of players should be set to 1 and no maximum. However, 2 points will be defaulted for every board under the minimum required for their division. This way matches still can go ahead if teams fail to field a complete team.
13. Once the challenge has been accepted a link should be posted ideally in the fixture forum or posted on the newsfeed. It is important these links are posted so the controller can monitor and find the result of each match. If no link is sent by November 1st, both teams will score 0 points for that match.
14. If a team consistently turns down a challenge then this will result in a defeat.
15. 2 points will be scored for a win, 1 for a draw.
16. If teams have an equal number of points at the end of the season, then the following in order will be taken into account to determine finishing places:
a) The match result(s) between tied teams, if a team has beaten all those teams they have tied with, they will finish above them in the league.
b) The number of time outs achieved, the team with the lowest time out score will finish top. (Note, this was not a rule in 2015)
c) The total number of games won minus the total number of games lost in the season, by each team. The team with the highest score will take the top position.
17. If a player is found to be cheating by chess.com, then they will forfeit all their games for the season and results will be reversed where necessary. This rule will only apply to the 2016 season onwards, not the 2015 season. All reports of cheating or suspected cheating should be sent to chess.com.
18. Results will be declared once a team has unassailable lead, but these results can be overturned if a player is found to be cheating. However, once the last result of the season in each division is declared no other results in that division can be overturned, even if a player is found to be cheating after this date.
19. All players and teams should play in a sporting manner and make the championship should promote friendship and encourage others to join.
Point 12 is going to require team admins to keep track of their team sheets closely before the match kicks off in order to know which team it was who fielded fewer than the minimum number of players since it is impossible to tell after the match has started.
It looks almost certain Lancashire will be in Division 2 so I won't really need to worry about the minimum team size. We've had numbers ranging from 4 to 19 in matches currently in progress abd from the last two years so it is very inconsistent and impossible to judge how many we will field from one month to the next, but we shoud certainly always manage 4.
We have had a spate of 3 new member requests in the last two days too so I assume they have heard about the championship from Team England which is good.
Good point about point 12. But if a link to the match is sent to the controller (currently myself) before the match starts then they can monitor, and see which team is lacking players and send a warning.
Any other thoughts on a minimum number of players for div2? I am still keen on 4 players so it will encourage new smaller teams to enter. Cumbria and Suffolk have both expressed an interest in joining in 2016 and they are both at present small groups. Any thoughts on how many teams to be promoted/relegated at the end of 2016?
I'd prefer minimum 4 per team, but I'm not too fussed either way personally as I think we (Lancashire) could usually field 6 in matches too. It would be good to expand with more teams though so limiting them would be a shame.
OTB was always 6 players, if you did not have them, then you forfeited those games
RE Point 12, the logic is good but in practice it surely can't work. Thats a lot of manual admin work for matt to be checking every match, and matches lock differently and with players dropping in and out. It will be impossible for things to be missed, and it just sounds like a complicated can of worms which is never good. Suggest that can is left shut :)
Point 12- should it be changed to minimum no. Of players for div1 to be set to 8. Minimum players for div2 be set to 4. If a team fails to achieve the minimum no. Of players then that team defaults and a friendly match is played instead. What do you all think? I do think that 4 players has to be the minimum for div2 as we have two new teams entering who may struggle to get 6 players per match. Thanks again for all your comments and input. Matt
Hmmm. If the team is just missing one player then should the entire team get 0 points? Doesn't seem right. I think to reduce admin work, an date could be agreed to check and lock the teams.
Minimum 4 players for Div 2 seems good.
Don't know about Div 1 though.
Agreed it's not ideal for a team to forfeit a match because they are a player short but I can't think of another solution other than those that will cause me to have to do lots of manual checking. Would reducing the minimum no. of players for div1 to 6 help?
Maybe there could be an agreed date to check and lock the teams.
6 sounds good for Div 1.
It is quite complicated. Some unlucky teams might get someone dropping out of the match 5 mins before it starts, leaving them short with no time to seek a replacement.
Maybe we need to resort to some good old fashioned good will and faith amongst the teams.
Yes, that makes sense Noah's Dad. Maybe give teams a week's grace to complete their team. But a week after the deadline the other team can claim the match or choose to wait for a further week.
Changes to be made:
Point 7: Division 1 the minimum number of players will now be 6. Division 2 will remain at 4 players.
Point 12: Please set the minimum number of players to 6 for division 1 and 4 for division 2. If a team fails to make the minimum number they will be given a week to find the extra players after this week the other team can claim the match or choose to wait an extra week. After two weeks of waiting and if the two teams involved can't find a solution, the team without enough players default the match.
I will edit the rules above in #5 to reflect these new rules before the start of the new season unless there are any new views on this.
Even though the minimums are set at 6 and 4 players teams should always encourage as many players as possible to play in each match.
I think we need to start thinking ahead to the next season in 2016. Please discuss my proposals below.
1) To have a top and a lower division. At present the top 4 finishers in each of group A and B will be in division 1 and the remaining teams in division 2. If new teams apply to enter the championship then this may change, any new teams will enter in division 2.
2) The minimum player limit for division 1 will be 8 players and the minimum for division 2 will remain at 4. Any team that doesn't think it can field 8 players regularly can elect to play in division 2.
3) Do we want an automatic start time, to make sure matches start on the agreed dates?
Please feel free to discuss the above and any other ideas that will help the league run smoothly next season.
It would also be good if someone could help me run all of the above. Eg I would run one division and someone else could run the other, if we have enough volunteers a third person could run a cup competition.
Best wishes
Matt