Isle of Lewis Team

Hi all,

We have received an application from the Isle of Lewis to join the league.

Initially we rejected their application as it appeared a team made up of players who admired the The Isle of Lewis Chessmen rather than being residents of the island.

They now have 4 members who live on the island and have asked to be considered again.

If they were to join they could take up the 10th spot in division 3.

Please comment with views on this and I will go with the majority.  The final decision will be made on Sunday.

Thanks Matt

I'm not convinced they are a genuine regional team, I personally would say no, last time I looked they had 200 plus members I think they would have an unfair advantage in the championship as the vast majority have absolutely no connection to Lewis. But will go with the majority if other disagree.

I am also of the view that they should be rejected. If there was a team from a county sized area e.g. The Western Isles, or Argyll and Bute, or Highland Region, or any other Scottish administrative area, then they would be a convincing entity for inclusion. But the Isle of Lewis in itself is not necessarily any more geographically significant than say The Isle of Ely, The Isle of Sheppey or The Isle of Dogs.

I  say let them in - most of the teams have members whose links to the county are tenuous at best. I personally welcome the opportunity to play against as many different teams as possible and can see no reason to reject them. If you want to cite members' links to the county or region then you need to do the same for all of the teams. Can all admins vouch for all of their members' links to their region?

I remember a conversation I had with you all about who we let into our teams and that they should be either living in said county or be from here and you told me it was too difficult to check so as long as they don’t play for another county team then anything goes. 

If they are 200 strong then yes they would be a very large team but how can you say that they shouldn’t be let in? 

As long as their players ONLY play for them why should it matter where they are from? You can’t have it both ways, either we are sticking to ONLY county members in which case the answer is no or we are allowed to invite anyone to our teams as long as they don’t play for another county team the answer is yes.

I was in that club.  It is not a regional team at all.  I am Australian but have heritage and links to Ulster.  And I would hope that is acceptable. That is just a club of random people from what I saw. It wasn’t obvious it was a regional club at all.  Are you going to let any club who puts a county link in their name?   
The World Cities League has a foreign flag requirement where only 25% of the players can have a foreign flag and the flags are defined.   You can go down that route if you want.  

Well that is a tough one !! To date the competition has accepted entries from many "clubs" which are not county based e.g. London, Ulster, Leinster, Birmingham and The Three Counties so it seems unacceptable to refuse the Isle of Lewis entry for not being "significant geographically". Presumably if other "clubs" could come up with a comparable advertising campaign their memberships could expand too. My competitive streak says "no" but it would probably say "no" to several teams currently competing. In line with our relaxed, welcoming attitude I think my response has got to be a "Yes".  

I agree this is a bit of a tricky issue. If the welcoming attitude is not tempered with some 'proportionality' (e.g. a maximum club side of [say] 200 members), then the competition risks defaulting to which club has the most effective recruiting machine ... rather than the most proficient chess team.

Perhaps the solution is to ask them to enter a new, separate team, an Isle of Lewis UKICC team, where only those with a genuine connection to the place can join.

The 200-strong club can carry on as usual, and a smaller team can play for the Isle in our league. 

If they’re willing to do that, I don’t see any reason why this new club couldn’t be accepted. 

Sounds good AJ !

I broadly agree with AJ Read. I would strongly disagree with Suffolk Punch. The Isle of Lewis has a very strong regional identity. If one went down the strictly county route, you would be forced to either go with the modern Western Isles regional authority, which is not a county anyway, or go with the traditional counties of Inverness-shire or Ross-shire into which Lewis is split, most people in Lewis are unaware of the old county lines anyway. In reality, the main identity that Leodhasaich have is to their island. I used to live there for around a year,I am not Scottish but am a fluent Scottish Gaelic speaker who is conversant in their dialect. I think if we could guarantee that it is a team for people who have a connection with the island, we should allow it but we should probably insist on a new group. I would be happy to help with organisation although as an Ulster player, I could not play for them

I should explain that Leodhasaich is the Scottish Gaelic word for people from Lewis. When I made reference to dialect, I am referring to the Lewis dialect of the Scottish Gaelic language.

I'm with AJ if they want to join they should start a new team as 200 unknowns from anywhere is too much!

I did raise my concerns with matt when they were originally in (and from the sounds of it I wasn't the only one!) and haven't changed my opinion from that.

I know we've had the discussion on it being difficult to police people being from a region, etc, etc, but at the end of the day a lot has to be taken on trust anyway.  There's no reason to not have it as a 'gentleman's rule' that teams should do their best to only accept people who have a connection with the county (or for whom it is the closest to where they live or were born if their own is not part of the championship).

If an actual Isle of Lewis team, made up of players from the island (or a Hebridean team or a Highlands & Islands team) wants to join that would be fantastic, but I was going to make the same suggestion as aj-read.  It's too complicated to just take it on trust that only the local players out of 200 international players will join matches.  They should start a new group specifically for playing in the county championship, and they are free to play whatever games they want with the other group.

I imagine all 200 would be eligible for joining matches and I don’t know the population of the Isle of Lewis but can’t imagine it is big or that there are 200 players connected with that region.    Most people join (I think) because of their connection to those ancient chess pieces and the history. I did if I can remember.  It was a while back and they did say they were joining this league which absolutely surprised me and as I am in Ulster I left.  

I think a lot comes down to the leadership- are at least 1/2 admins linked to or residents of the island? 

So if we are to assume that they can join with a new team of players specifically from there then we need to be more stringent with the rules.  You cant say that teams can only have players from a particular region unless it's going to be policed which brings me back to the initial question I asked in this group notes. 

You can have the 25% foreign flag rule like the world cities league.  And 3 st most in every 12.  So they can’t stack them at the top 

You just have to define which flags are Uk and county flags.  Ireland and Scotland flags etc.  

Thank you for all your responses and input.  It is much appreciated.  I think AJs suggestion is a good one.  I will put that to the Isle of Lewis admin.   I think we have to go on trust that players have a connection to their county/region and that we trust the admins of each team are doing their best to make sure their members have a connection to that region.  I updated the rules for 2020 saying this about a month back.  

Thanks again for all your input.  I will keep you informed whether or not the Isle of Lewis intend to enter a team consisting of players with a link to the Island.