King's Indian Attack , Black plays early g5

Good afternoon,

Two questions really:

I regularly play KIA, but recently came unstuck when my opponent threw in g5 within the first ten moves. I will try to post details of the game later, but I played the standard moves Nf3, g3,Bg2,0-0,Nbd2,Re1. My opponent chose not to castle and was hedging his bets to go queenside. He followed g5 up with a prompt h5 leaving me with a heavy sinking feeling. What should I be doing to counter this?

Also, I wanted to ask about the general rules as to when Qe1, rather than Re1 should be played (supporting the e4 push). I realise there are no general rules as such, but a few pointers would be useful. 

If I get time later, I will post the game referred to in the first paragraph for your general amusement.

Did you mean Bg4 or Bf5?

Edit: ah nevermind, it's the pawn to g5 you meant

Yes, pawn g5. If I recall, some of his preceeding moves were d5, Nc6, Be6 etc

I'll dig the game out when I've finished my shift.

1 Nf3 d5 2.g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 c5 4. d3 h6 5. 0-0 Be6 7 Nbd2 Be7 8. Re1 g5 9 Nc4 f6

I'm assuming 3..c5 should be 3..e5?

Actually, if you click on the 'Insert position of game' from the menu when adding a message, you should get a chessboard where you can drag the peices around, I think the line you gave might have a few typos in it, as 9. Nc4 is en-prise by the ..d5 pawn

My apologies. I'm really not sure how to counter this threat. Normally, I would now play a move like Nf1. My opponent played f6, then began to push his h-pawn. I met this with h4. It was a bad game , which I deservedly lost.

Usually against this type aggression by Black, the general plan is to 'meet the King' on the queenside after Black castles long and drop any plans of the k-side attack (black is going for a pawn storm there).

So ideas such as e4, c3, b4 etc. are good, but the problem with the position given is how to meet a potential ..g4 as the Nf3 doesn't have a safe place to go, Nf1 might be an idea to open up d2, and potentially go to e3 at some point later. Re1 here also allows white to play Bh1 in the event that black plays Qd7 and Bh3, in these positions, you must try and keep your white squared bishop alive to help deal with the weak white squares around the king.

You are correct to notice that Nf1, f6 and then h4 from white would be bad, as that just helps open up lines against your king, Black's plan is to play Qd7, castle long, then bring the other rook into play on g8, or doubling rooks on the h-file.  In a nutshell, if you see a pawn storm coming, avoid making pawn moves near your king, this gives you more time to either counter attack, or setup some sort of defence before the pawn storm gets closer.

As for Qe1, it's usually played when Black plays Bg4 pinning the Nf3, it gets out of the pin and also supports e4, e5.  Rf1 can stay where it is to support an f4 push later.

Thanks, that's useful advice. The Qd7 Bg4 combo from black is a scary one and I've been advised that I should 'contest the diagonal' with moves such as h3, followed by Kh2. I'm told this is sound, but it just feels like black has the initiative. I plan to use this opening again at my club tomorrow night and will post my results here, assuming I write everything down correctly under time pressure.

Give it a few tries, I'm not sure the idea suggested by h3, Kh2 is sound though when faced with an incoming pawn storm, the only time I've seen that theme is when Bg4 is played, White throws in the h3 to 'kick' the B which sometimes goes back to e6 followed by Qd7, threatedning to win the h3 pawn, so White plays Kh2 to defend it, but, in those cases, there is usually no incoming pawn storm.  If there is, then I think it's a bit risky (i.e. black has a pawns already at g5 and h5.

The type of attack in these positions is well known, and is seen a a few openings, in particular, the Pirc, called the '150 Attack', the Samisch against the King's Indian Defense and the Yugoslav attack against the Sicilian Dragon.  In almost all cases, the best  way to handle the attack is to either bust through the center, or mount your own counter-attack on the opposite wing.

I will look into it and get back to u

Thanks for the all the advice, PeskyGnat.   Helpful.  

Would you say KID theory and motifs also generally apply to the KIA?   e.g. looking for Nf3-h4 to allow f4, f5, etc. ?    

Also, is it usually preferred (even requisite?) to keep the h file closed?   I had (I think) to open it in an online game yesterday.