No, red and yellow are only slightly better as in normal chess. B&G can still win if they defend well and have better skill. There are good defenses against the twin queen opening. There are alternative teams, such as R&B vs Y&G, and R&G vs B&Y.
Move Order in 4PC Teams
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Dec 3, 2020
0
#3
He is asking about if the move order can go red, blue, green, yellow, which hasn't been talked about before.
gg7654 wrote:
He is asking about if the move order can go red, blue, green, yellow, which hasn't been talked about before.
This can kind of be done if you set alternative teams.
Dec 3, 2020
0
#5
noahfavelo wrote:
gg7654 wrote:
He is asking about if the move order can go red, blue, green, yellow, which hasn't been talked about before.
This can kind of be done if you set alternative teams.
No, alternative teams is where red and green are on a team vs yellow and blue. This is where red makes a move, blue makes a move, then GREEN makes a move who is opposite to blue, and then yellow last.
Dec 3, 2020
0
#6
JoweClowke wrote:
As we all know, the move order gives a significant advantage to the red-yellow team.
I'm no expert in standard play (I'm a variants player, mostly), but I don't think the advantage is that significant. As @kingandqueen2017 said, it's somewhat comparable to white's advantage in 2-player chess, but I think to an even lesser degree than that. I'd be interested to hear the opinion of some of our teams masters. @FourPlayerChess @e4bc4qh5qf7 @Cha_ChaRealSmooth
In variant play, it's possible to change the team association with the "Alternate Teammates" game setting, where Red can be paired with either Blue or Green, instead of Yellow. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking, but it does make things a bit more wacky. You suggested a R-B-G-Y move order, which changes the team move order to ABBA, instead of ABAB. With Red teaming with Green, it would also follow ABBA.
In my experience, you have to be super careful to not create a grossly unfair outcome with this setup though. I'm not sure if the Standard starting position with alternate teams has been shown to be a forced win (maybe @boxjellyFishchess knows?), but I do know that in some other variants, which ordinarily function fine, that alternate teams does lead to a huge or forced advantage/win. Consider that two-move combos are always possible with this. i.e., PlayerA defends, PlayerB removes defender, PlayerB gives checkmate.
the advantage is a fair deal bigger compared to regular chess...... in 4pc engine eval reads at about +3.5 for ry while in normal its +0.5
kingandqueen2017 wrote:
No, red and yellow are only slightly better as in normal chess. B&G can still win if they defend well and have better skill. There are good defenses against the twin queen opening. There are alternative teams, such as R&B vs Y&G, and R&G vs B&Y.
R&G vs B&Y . . . This is equivalent to one of my suggestions if you keep the current position and move order, just that the color pairings of the teams are different. My suggestion was just to keep team players from being confused by having to remember which color is their partner. It is easier on the brain if these are always the same.
JoweClowke wrote:
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I did look through some of the recent posts and didn't see this topic covered. As we all know, the move order gives a significant advantage to the red-yellow team. There must be a good reason for it, but I'm just not aware of any game factor that would prevent the move order being red > blue > green > yellow, or else switch yellow and green to have team players beside each other. Either way, red would move first and yellow would move last, which seems like it would nicely balance the game. Is there any configuration where we can specify a custom move order?
what your talking. i better as blue green to keep fair i would say give some advantage red yellow . just kidding but to beat me as BG i m serious
do not get trick by order its already there or discussed !!!
but what you suggesting is variant it is 2 player chess basically not 4 anymore due to 2 turn btw enemies and it different from current teams with checkmate system its much fast pace i do not like because there should be enemy turn in btw or else lets assume if blue check yellow then next is green he check yellow is checkmated and then red can not stop BUT these is already been there are alternative teams, such as R&B vs Y&G, and R&G vs B&Y.
what you saying in similar what already there it is R&G vs B&Y but what you suggesting is already been discussed i call it cross turning or cross order
crossing turning RED > YELLOW >BLUE > GREEN and i made variant of it which perfect fit cross turning in it. its more like 2 player affect but basically 4 player trying to play it
BLACK & WHITE variants - Chess Forums - Chess.com
CROSS TURNING POSTION IS DOWN BELOW
due to pawn it not possible to replace but these position you should get decent idea how these is going work out !!
red > yellow > blue > green its order!
[StartFen4 "R-0,0,0,0-1,1,1,1-1,1,1,1-0,0,0,0-0-{'royal':('h1','g14','a8','n7')}-3,bR,bN,bB,bK,bQ,bB,bN,bR,3/3,bK,bK,bK,bK,bK,bK,bK,bK,3/14/yR,yK,10,gK,gR/yN,yK,10,gK,gN/yB,yK,10,gK,gB/yK,yK,10,gK,gQ/yQ,yK,10,gK,gK/yB,yK,10,gK,gB/yN,yK,10,gK,gN/yR,yK,10,gK,gR/14/3,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,3/3,rR,rN,rB,rQ,rK,rB,rN,rR,3"]
[Variant "Teams"]
[RuleVariants "Teammate=1 EnPassant"]
[CurrentMove "0"]
cross turning alternative way Your position down below! problem solved close the form!
"red > blue > green > yellow"
[StartFen4 "R-0,0,0,0-1,1,1,1-1,1,1,1-0,0,0,0-0-{'royal':('h1','a8','n7','h14')}-3,gR,gN,gB,gQ,gK,gB,gN,gR,3/3,gK,gK,gK,gK,gK,gK,gK,gK,3/14/bR,bK,10,yK,yR/bN,bK,10,yK,yN/bB,bK,10,yK,yB/bK,bK,10,yK,yQ/bQ,bK,10,yK,yK/bB,bK,10,yK,yB/bN,bK,10,yK,yN/bR,bK,10,yK,yR/14/3,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,rK,3/3,rR,rN,rB,rQ,rK,rB,rN,rR,3"]
[Variant "Teams"]
[RuleVariants "Teammate=3 EnPassant"]
[CurrentMove "0"]
just change colors of player so that you do not get confuse if your enemy get confuse let him stay confused !
Terminator Evaluation gives R/Y as +2.5. Since it's a 4 player chess game, we halve this to find the 2PC equivalent - +1.25. It's really not too much, but is enough to win a lot more games as R/Y at the top level.
don 't need an evaluation to know R-Y has a quite significant advantage
but its not so significant that B-G can't win, in the match of W4PCC teams from Icystun + abhinavmartha vs Valger + Oleg_barantsev B-G won every game
ChesscomTom wrote:
Terminator Evaluation gives R/Y as +2.5. Since it's a 4 player chess game, we halve this to find the 2PC equivalent - +1.25. It's really not too much, but is enough to win a lot more games as R/Y at the top level.
@chesscomtom try capture the king Evaluation i m pretty sure it should be very balanced or at least very very less +0.5 maybe
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I did look through some of the recent posts and didn't see this topic covered. As we all know, the move order gives a significant advantage to the red-yellow team. There must be a good reason for it, but I'm just not aware of any game factor that would prevent the move order being red > blue > green > yellow, or else switch yellow and green to have team players beside each other. Either way, red would move first and yellow would move last, which seems like it would nicely balance the game. Is there any configuration where we can specify a custom move order?