My Complaints About the NCVs

1. Why is Labyrinth 82 not in the Popular section of even the Featured 4P section? It has been played every single day (there's even the dedicated arena: 1|1 FFA Complexus), and it's quite beginner-friendly compared to the other variants on the Featured 4P section... (continued below)
2. (As an example, there are many more, such as Thermopylae (which is on Featured 2P, but same concept), which was one of the least popular variants that is neither fun nor popular *in my opinion*)
   Glass Labyrinth is on the Featured 4P list; when it is:
   a.) Not beginner-friendly in the slightest, as it uses fairy pieces and is asymmetrical
   b.) Definitely was not "more popular" than other variants
   c.) Highly debatable how fair the game is, although it generally evens out at *high level*
   *Hence a reason for Point A
3. Composite ratings are a joke.
   a.) You can play something in hyperbullet to inflate a variant's composite rating, or shun away the fast time controls altogether as it will devastate your rating. 
   b.) If for example you played a variant using a composite rating, and Tactical was part of the composition, you would lose rating in other variants that use Tactical as well. So, one last place in a variant and you're screwed everywhere else.
4. CGAs refuse to share any graphs or data (perhaps they don't have any in the first place?) to show popularity or take some notes to share with everyone on why each variant was placed where they are now (some possible prompts below)
   a.) How many games were played of this variant in the last (x) months?
   b.) How many unique players played this variant?
   c.) What is the reasoning for putting this variant in (y) section?
   d.) Was popularity or was balance/playability the determining factor? Or both?

(Point 4 can be fixed after CGAs gather the information this week, as they've already temporarily closed NCV and WoF submissions, but they should at least publicly reveal the information) 

so true I beat someone in a random "tactical" game and they lost like 50 points of tactical rating

So true.... Miss old 4pc.

😭

CGA team has always had data on variant popularity, but this information was never made available to everyone because of data manipulation (i.e. if bsrti hypothetically played collateral world 1/10|0 with 3 comfuters to boost popularity, as a made up example that didn't actually happen).

As per composite ratings, let me explain the idea behind them:

The idea is to have players both have preliminary ratings and to encourage them to try out the other variants. Let's assume that Person X is #2 at Battle of the Castles, but they cannot bypass #1 as #1 just farms composite ratings but otherwise they could defeat them. What does Person X do? Their strategy might be to play and observe some games of the other variant where they can safely play against 1500s, and try out like 3-4 such variants to get composite ratings higher. 

Respectively #1 place might also try the other variants, and they may even perhaps clash in a varaint #1 is somewhat better, while #2 might try to snipe them in the variant they are better at. So, because of the fact that usually MTDPS/Time controls/Game rules take up only 11-17%, the losses will be much more transparent, especially considering that most variants are FFA. If you lost 92 rating for 4th, you would lose around 15 rating, but for five +6 ratings on each of the other variants you would gain that rating back - in fact you would gain twice more.

In which alternate dimension is Glass Labyrinth:

1. "Player friendly"
2. "Fair [as a] 2500 playing against three 1800s"

You seem to forget why you and qilp's variants blitz ratings plummeted.

Also, what part of Labyrinth 82 is "not well made"? If you would give some actual reasoning that would be spendid...

All standard chess pieces and not the most complicated board. The only thing you could possibly miss is some fast mates on your very first game against experienced players or accidentally moving 1 (or 2) pawns up to the 3rd rank, which means that you wasted a pawn on promotion. Yes, it is also asymmetrical, but not in a way that will make 1 side need to play more accurately than the others.

Here, 2 sides have fairy royals. There is KOTH and multiple different strategies are needed to play, which is not ideal for the casual (new) player who wants to relax and play off some stress.

It is easy to get excited and quickly mated, and even common for high rated players to rush to the KOTH squares knowing that their other opponents have no idea how to stop it.

(Don't deny it, CGAs, you've all ran your grasshopper royal to the middle at some point)

The reason why Labyrinth 82 is not in the Most Popular category is simple: it's not the most popular. Moreover, there are several custom variants which are more popular than Labyrinth 82, but even those aren't in the Most Popular category. I hope this is convincing enough.

As I've already mentioned here (and bsrti has explained above), the Featured 4P category is for the the most balanced, the most beginner-friendlty, the most unique, or the most well-made variants. In other words, for the most promising ones. Labyrinth 82, alas, is not one of those. It has multiple issues; one of them is spontaneous but excessive teaming. There is no clear goal players can strive to, such as pawn promotion, taking the center, or occupying and holding strategic positions. As long as each player has enough defense against another player, the only thing you can do is either to move your pieces back and forth, waiting for other players to trade, so that you have enough pieces to attack someone, or to attack someone with another player in order to win material due to 2v1 (or 3v1) attacks and checkmate after a while.

You no longer need to justify the unfoundedness of your statements about variants popularity by the fact we do not publish the statistics we collect. Any assertion about variant popularity can now be justified by the number of its active players; it's available to everyone. And according to the number of active players, Thermopylae is now the most popular custom 2P variant. Remember, you said it's "one of the least popular", which just shows how wrong you can be.

Concerning Glass Labyrinth:

1. The existence of fairy pieces does not make a variant not beginner-friendly.
   Labyrinth 82 is also asymmetrical, but you still call it "quite beginner-friendly".
2. The popularity is not a factor, and you can't say "definitely" to what you cannot say for sure.
3. It has been tested for quite some time by several CGAs. If you have any complaints about the quality of our testing, please tell us what we have missed and how exactly the variant is unfair.

There is no variant's composite rating. The only thing that can be called "variant's composite rating" is a custom position rating, and it is not based on any other composite ratings. So as long as each variant has its own custom position, the only visible practical difference between composite and dedicated ratings is that dedicated rating is additionally divided by the time control type and game mode. Hence, you cannot "inflate a variant's composite rating" by playing something in hyperbullet just as you can't lose the actual rating of a tactical variant by playing other tactical variants. The only thing that would change is hyperbullet and tactical ratings.

What categories should be, which variants they should include, which rating type each variant should use, what weight each composite should have for each variant, etc., – all these decisions were made by CGA Team (including admins) after very long and extensive discussions and analysis.

1. See Box's comment.
2. Available to everyone: Variant → Leaders → N active players
3. The general logic/reasoning is explained above.
4. Also explained above.

Actually no, it has a wide variety of strategies players can use. The idea of the game is pretty simple and the same for each side, and players can use the same strategy for any side if they wish.

Oh sorry, that's unacceptable! A variant with 2 fairy royals in the featured category!! We'll remove it as soon as possible. The existence of KotH also doesn't make a variant worth or less begginer-friendly.

If he feels that 2 fairy royals, koth, and asymmetric position is too complicated for him and will not let to "relax and play off some stress", he's more than welcome to play other variants, including variants from FFA category (e.g. Labyrinth 82).

Do you really think we make decisions based on how much rating we win or lose?

"Thermopylae is now the most popular custom 2P variant. Remember, you said it's "one of the least popular", which just shows how wrong you can be."

Any bets that this is because you put it in "Featured 2P"? Why not do rotations every few weeks/months and analyze what happens then? 

"Do you really think we make decisions based on how much rating we win or lose?"

It shows the unreliability of the game.

"Hence, you cannot "inflate a variant's composite rating" by playing something in hyperbullet just as you can't lose the actual rating of a tactical variant by playing other tactical variants. The only thing that would change is hyperbullet and tactical ratings."

Garbage, I increased my "Labyrinth 82 2nd=BRNQ" rating by a few hundreds in 1 hyperbullet game, which even if it's a small factor (which it isn't), it would still affect other ratings. 

Also, you realize people are farming "1/10 Solo" as a way to artificially increase the Hyper composition rating?

"Any assertion about variant popularity can now be justified by the number of its active players; it's available to everyone."

Ahem, 12 active players in blitz...

Also, that composition ratings system makes it impossible to compare this with anything else.

Did he say that on purpose?!?!

😧

Plus, can't you CGAs just filter out casual games? That's a genius idea that you totally haven't discussed before...

...?? If I get you right, the only your argument is that it's "neither fun nor popular" in your opinion, and you still cannot believe some may like this variant. Obviously, we won't be moving it back and forth every few weeks just to prove to you that players enjoy playing this game no matter what category it's in. But let's imagine for a moment that you're right and Thermopylae wasn't one of the most popular before the merge. So the game is not fun and it never was popular. The only reason players play it is that it's in the category named "Featured". Just think: you keep playing a boring unpopular variant just because it's in the bottom of the Featured list now. Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Why aren't other variants from Featured 2P so popular then? Why several variants from Extra category had even more active players until we lost some comp ratings?

Let me make things clear: it's not like variants from Featured categories are good and variants from others (FFA, Teams, Extra) are bad. No, they're equal; we just chose several variants for their prominent features, high quality, and excellent implementation of the idea among other well-made and cool variants.

That must be a bug. Let's hope it will be fixed along with negative RD and 100k ratings.

It shows our skills of the game and how well we played it. It also shows how the rating system works (worked) in Solo variants for two 2700 and two 1500 players. If you think that if we lose rating playing a variant in solo, then that variant is unreliable and unfair, well, I don't see any point to continue the conversation then.

Accidentally 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You told me to look at Box's comment.

I looked at Box's comment.

This is part of Box's comment:

"if bsrti hypothetically played collateral world 1/10|0 with 3 comfuters to boost popularity"

Filter out casual games when looking at popularity. If only rated games count then that means that it is truly popular.

Even if someone sits in a queue for 6 years to get a game, actual humans will still need to join.

lmao the leaders tab disappeared again... is it bugged or do they actually just change it every day

At the top of the FFA list.

They still do.

It's far from the only one. I have no right to say why others play it, as everyone may have their own reasons, but I, personally, play it because it's the new standard now and the majority, including top players, play it. I'm sure there are also others among 6000 players who plays new standard for the same or similar reason.

Well, in that case, all the complaints apply to the Box's example and not to us.
That's good to hear :]
And yes, it was just the simplest example that demonstrates the idea of "data manipulation".

4 people are playing WFT II. None of the other featured variants are getting played at all. Therefore, WFT II is infinitely more popular; it should be the only variant. Delete all the others. 

There can only be one...

Ratio of WFT to other variants is 4 to 0

4/0 is "infinity" (not technically a number) when calculating limits, and we are currently calculating the limit of our ability to tolerate the merge

Therefore WFT is infinitely better than other variants