The Cambrian Explosion

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tbwp10

Like @Ziryab has said that's where you computer coding analogy breaks down 

TruthMuse

Events driven by a cause, are just that driven by a cause, you may think nothing of that, but causes didn't just show up by happenstance and chance, it was put there.

tbwp10

Ok

TruthMuse

If you accept that the code within life drives all of the processes including its ability to transfer instructions, copy instructions, and run all of the normal processes so all of the features required for life to exist like thermal control, blood pressure, and on and on, we see these features in the code, we can even point to who is who by looking at DNA. Exactly what do you look at in life code besides the wishful thinking that you can point to that says we see the embedded code that allows for readability and change for evolution to alter a body plan, where is that located?  After all, what we observe is the important feature in all of this correct?

tbwp10

I don't accept it, because it's not accurate. "Code" (DNA sequences) has the instructions to make various types of RNA & proteins. "Code" doesn't "drive all of the processes." "Code" = manufacturing instructions; instructions for manufacturing, assembling molecules (RNAs & proteins). That's what "code" consists of (along with a high amount of repetitive, non-coding "code"). "Thermal control, blood pressure, and so on" is not written or contained in "code."

Also, DNA is not the only informational molecule or "code" in living things. For example, the distribution of cytoplasmic determinants (proteins) in maternal egg cell cytoplasm is inherited separately from DNA and induce cell differentiation, determine the axis of symmetry of an organism, and determine the spatial distribution of organs, segments, and systems.

*Like I've said: it's not all about DNA. DNA doesn't direct everything.

(Presumptive Territories Maps or Embryo Fate Maps determined by distribution and segregation of cytoplasmic determinants)

TruthMuse
tbwp10 wrote:

I don't accept it, because it's not accurate. "Code" (DNA sequences) has the instructions to make various types of RNA & proteins. "Code" doesn't "drive all of the processes." "Code" = manufacturing instructions; instructions for manufacturing, assembling molecules (RNAs & proteins). That's what "code" consists of (along with a high amount of repetitive, non-coding "code"). "Thermal control, blood pressure, and so on" is not written or contained in "code."

Also, DNA is not the only informational molecule or "code" in living things. For example, the distribution of cytoplasmic determinants (proteins) in maternal egg cell cytoplasm is inherited separately from DNA and induce cell differentiation, determine the axis of symmetry of an organism, and determine the spatial distribution of organs, segments, and systems.

*Like I've said: it's not all about DNA. DNA doesn't direct everything.

(Presumptive Territories Maps or Embryo Fate Maps determined by distribution and segregation of cytoplasmic determinants)

 

Chemical reactions are simply reactions, specified controlled reactions are not haphazard they are directed. Anything directed to occur outside of breaking down due to entropy, which is an action within the universe as gravity and so on, has some means of control being placed on them when functionally complex work is being done. We are not talking about water cycles here. 

tbwp10

Has nothing to do with what I said. Doesn't relate to organisms' abilities to modify and restructure their own genomes to effectuate evolutionary change.

TruthMuse

Abilities, restructuring, and transforming are acts that are just naturally there without reason or cause.

tbwp10

For the umpteenth time, we've already agreed they could have an intelligent cause as to their origin, but again as I keep saying ad nauseum we're talking about what those cellular processes can accomplish once they are there....unless you are arguing that every time a cell divides, or repairs, or edits, or splices out and inserts DNA in different locations, and rearranges its chromosomes, duplicates its whole genome, incorporates foreign DNA into its genome, etc...all by means of different protein cutting, inserting, repairing, editing enzymes...unless you want to argue that every time that happens that each instance is a separate act of divine intervention.

TruthMuse

I will argue every time it does what it was designed to do is by design, what is suggested when it is argued that it started early on as a single life and morphed through time into what we see today is not something we can look at in the code and say because we see this, that could have happened.

tbwp10

You didn't address the point: Are you arguing that every time a cell divides, or repairs, or edits, or splices out and inserts DNA in different locations, and rearranges its chromosomes, duplicates its whole genome, incorporates foreign DNA into its genome, etc. (all by means of different protein cutting, inserting, repairing, editing enzymes)...are you arguing that every time that happens that each instance is a separate act of divine intervention?

TruthMuse

Each act is a different act, if the processes are not consistent are they solid processes? I'm quite fine saying that God created the whole universe and holds it all together by the power of His Word and that means every force in the universe, every process in the universe to the nth degree. Are you suggesting that Deism is the route that we must take when we observe the universe, God started it all, then walked away to see where the chips fell?

tbwp10

I'm confused by your answer. It sounds like you are in fact saying you believe that each act is a separate act of divine intervention. And to clarify, no, I'm not referring to deism. So let's say God is still actively involved in the universe (unlike deism) and is ultimately behind all the forces and laws of nature. My question is more simple: every time an enzyme copies or repairs or cuts out a piece of DNA and inserts it somewhere else in a genome or in a different genome, does God have to supernaturally intervene to make this happen, or does it happen all on its own because God designed it to work this way?

TruthMuse

The thing that holds a charge on an electron, gives gravity its force, and causes H2O to be water are they just because, or is something at work here, what do you think, the expansion of the universe just is, for no reason? Do you think the air you breathe is a gift, or nothing special?

tbwp10

But what was your answer to the question?

TruthMuse
tbwp10 wrote:

But what was your answer to the question?

EVERY processing point is under the control of God who is sovereign without exception, you think He created everything and released the universe to just spin out of control by the setup job He did? An Atheist, Deist, or Panthiest would have no issues with that train of thought, but Christians who believe in a Sovereign God would not, the footprints in reality reflect One, not the others.

tbwp10

I guess you're still not understanding my question, which has nothing to do with atheism, or pantheism, or deism. It was really simple too. Let's try a different approach....

Everytime I drop a ball from a height and it hits the ground, does God have to intervene to make it fall or does it fall all on it's own as a result of the force of gravity that God has created?

TruthMuse

I comprehended the point, and the same principle applies to the gravity question as it does to genes, genetic variation, and heredity. God does not stop controlling every aspect of all of His creation at any time, He has given us law-like activities that run due to the structure He put in place but they are still under His control, and by the things we see in nature of the universe we can grasp something of Him, He is not a God of confusion, and as the universe is discernable to us so we were made to understand it. Things like meaning, value, structure, and logic all are there due to how it was all put together with cause.

tbwp10

Man, you really have a difficult time answering simple questions. I did not ask you whether God stopped controlling every aspect. In fact, I've already said let's assume God is still involved. I also already said we're NOT talking about deism. Dare I try to ask again? Working from the belief that God still IS involved and controlling every aspect of creation, same question: Do objects fall to the ground because God DIRECTLY MAKES them fall by DIRECT DIVINE INTERVENTION or do they fall because of the force of gravity that God created in a universe that God is still actively involved in and controlling every aspect of?

You know, I'm just going to go ahead and answer for you. It seems like you believe it's the former: you believe that objects do NOT fall as a result of gravity, but require DIRECT DIVINE INTERVENTION and the Hand of God every time an object falls it's the Hand of God pulling (or throwing) it back down (which means we don't even need gravity at all so it probably doesn't exist).

TruthMuse
tbwp10 wrote:

Man, you really have a difficult time answering simple questions. I did not ask you whether God stopped controlling every aspect. In fact, I've already said let's assume God is still involved. I also already said we're NOT talking about deism. Dare I try to ask again? Working from the belief that God still IS involved and controlling every aspect of creation, same question: Do objects fall to the ground because God DIRECTLY MAKES them fall by DIRECT DIVINE INTERVENTION or do they fall because of the force of gravity that God created in a universe that God is still actively involved in and controlling every aspect of?

You know, I'm just going to go ahead and answer for you. It seems like you believe it's the former: you believe that objects do NOT fall as a result of gravity, but require DIRECT DIVINE INTERVENTION and the Hand of God every time an object falls it's the Hand of God pulling (or throwing) it back down (which means we don't even need gravity at all so it probably doesn't exist).

God is in charge of every atom, always was, is, and will be what part of this do you not get?