Forums

The Clergy Letter Project

Sort:
varelse1

The Clergy Letter - from American Christian Clergy
          – An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science

Clic aquí para leer la carta en español
Cliquer ici pour la version francaise
Clique aqui para ler a carta em português

Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.

https://www.theclergyletterproject.org/Christian_Clergy/ChrClergyLtr.htm

 

stephen_33

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

varelse1

The preceding is an open letter, urging public schools not to remove Evolution from the American school curriculum. 

Only ordained Christian ministers are permitted to sign this particular letter.

If your minister believes science is truely an investigation of the work of God, I urge you to bring this letter to his or her attention.

So far, this letter has recieved 17,282 signatures as of 3/22/2020.

We need more. I am not overselling it, to say I believe our children's future depends on it.

varelse1

That link can be followed to find substantially similar open letters, written and signed by Jewish, Universalist, and Buddhist clergymen, as well.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

Elroch

I was going to point out that religiously motivated evolution-denial is a problem in the Islamic world as well, but while it is true that there remain fundamentalists and activists who believe in various types of science denial (including young earth creationism) the modern trend is towards accurate representation of modern science. Since 2008, evolutionary biology has been part of the curriculum in pretty much the whole Islamic world and the large majority of students in countries like Pakistan and Indonesia understand and accept the Theory of Evolution. 

Elroch
TruthMuse wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

The majority of the Christian world does not deny science. It's a cultish minority that does.

TruthMuse
Elroch wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

The majority of the Christian world does not deny science. It's a cultish minority that does.

 

I'm sure we can find a cultish minority in any group. We need to be careful, merely disagreeing on a point, for specific reasons, that is not denying science, only the position. I can love science and disagree with things others with science believe.

stephen_33

Actually, even evangelicals, YEC's & other religious fundamentalists don't deny all of science from what I've seen.

They tend only to deny those aspects of science that contradict scripture. This is why we spend so much of our time trying to inform people on subjects such as evolution, dating & plate tectonics.

varelse1
Elroch wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

The majority of the Christian world does not deny science. It's a cultish minority that does.

Easy for you to say in the UK.

The US and Turkey rank by far the lowest among industrialized countries,  in acceptance of Evolution.

Much to our shame.

varelse1
stephen_33 wrote:

Actually, even evangelicals, YEC's & other religious fundamentalists don't deny all of science from what I've seen.

They tend only to deny those aspects of science that contradict scripture. This is why we spend so much of our time trying to inform people on subjects such as evolution, dating & plate tectonics.

Unfortunately,  there are very few branches of science, which do not dissprove a young Earth.

So in order to keep the masses believing in it, all these branches must be discredited, and Western Civilization returned to the glory days of the Dark Ages. Only then, will Young Earthers be able to sleep secure at night.

Elroch
varelse1 wrote:
Elroch wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

The majority of the Christian world does not deny science. It's a cultish minority that does.

Easy for you to say in the UK.

The US and Turkey rank by far the lowest among industrialized countries,  in acceptance of Evolution.

Much to our shame.

Even in the US, most Christians accept the reality of Evolution (although exactly how many seems to depend on the wording of the question in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense). Indeed, most protestants do (it's near 90% for Catholics).

TruthMuse

You can claim to believe in Evolution and deny common ancestry because Evolution is a vague term that has to be defined. You may know what you mean when you say the word; that doesn't mean the one you are talking to understands how you define the term. So asking how many believe in Evolution if the question isn't well written as what that means, the results are useless. People can mouth the same phrases and not be saying the same thing at all.

varelse1
TruthMuse wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's heartening, although I winced slightly at use of the term religious truth.

I agree completely, if something is true, it is true. Who believes it, who signs off on it, doesn't really matter and for some simply seeing some agree or disagree alone will make them agree or disagree. The truth isn't dependent on what group likes it or not.

Please don't get me wrong. I did not create this thread as some juvenile appeal to authority. Instead, I made it to demonstrate that in no way are Science and Religion in any sort of war. Despite what some in the media would like us to believe.

Either Evolution/Common Descent is every bit as promising a theory as it appears to be at the moment, or it is not. Either way, Christianity will be just fine. ( #No- lose scenario.)

For me, and solely in my humble opinion, Evolution is a Spiritual story.  The story of a single microbe springing into existence three and a half billion years ago. And the being nurtured and guided through all those many Eons, to become the vast and wondrous biosphere we find today. By my spirituality, this stands as possibly the greatest Testament to His nobility and genius.

But as I said, that is only my opinion.

Looking forward to your reply.

TruthMuse

I don't believe in common descent, and I think the information in life is enormously complex to get through a thoughtless, unguided, uncaring, completely indifferent natural process that has no awareness of what is going on and why. The informational requirements in the instructions are much more sophisticated than anything we do here, including the digital world. One of the many reasons that I not only think Abiogenesis isn't possible but transitioning from one established lifeform into a much more complex one as well, the same hurdles apply with both.

 

I didn't think you created this thread for any juvenile reason, I think its thought provoking.

varelse1
TruthMuse wrote:

You can claim to believe in Evolution and deny common ancestry because Evolution is a vague term that has to be defined. You may know what you mean when you say the word; that doesn't mean the one you are talking to understands how you define the term. So asking how many believe in Evolution if the question isn't well written as what that means, the results are useless. People can mouth the same phrases and not be saying the same thing at all.

Yes.

Actually Evolution is a misnomer. All you need for Evolution is change over time. This is not disputed by anybody. 

What is disputed, is UCD. Universal Common Descent. That is, can all life in our biosphere, be traced back to a common ancestor?

While this issue is still not decided with certainty, the evidence accumulated so far does give supporters of UCD reason to be optimistic.

varelse1
TruthMuse wrote:

I don't believe in common descent, and I think the information in life is enormously complex to get through a thoughtless, unguided, uncaring, completely indifferent natural process that has no awareness of what is going on and why. The informational requirements in the instructions are much more sophisticated than anything we do here, including the digital world. One of the many reasons that I not only think Abiogenesis isn't possible but transitioning from one established lifeform into a much more complex one as well, the same hurdles apply with both.

 

I didn't think you created this thread for any juvenile reason, I think its thought provoking.

I am glad you enjoyed it.

As an add-on, allow me to submit the possibility that the Evolution of our biosphere over the last several billion years, may actually not be thoughtless, unguided, uncaring, or indifferent at all.

I would offer one reason why I believe that might be possible, but the *whisper* (atheists!) may get upset.

wink.png

TruthMuse
varelse1 wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:

You can claim to believe in Evolution and deny common ancestry because Evolution is a vague term that has to be defined. You may know what you mean when you say the word; that doesn't mean the one you are talking to understands how you define the term. So asking how many believe in Evolution if the question isn't well written as what that means, the results are useless. People can mouth the same phrases and not be saying the same thing at all.

Yes.

Actually Evolution is a misnomer. All you need for Evolution is change over time. This is not disputed by anybody. 

What is disputed, is UCD. Universal Common Descent. That is, can all life in our biosphere, be traced back to a common ancestor?

While this issue is still not decided with certainty, the evidence accumulated so far does give supporters of UCD reason to be optimistic.

Common design would different how?

varelse1
TruthMuse wrote:
varelse1 wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:

You can claim to believe in Evolution and deny common ancestry because Evolution is a vague term that has to be defined. You may know what you mean when you say the word; that doesn't mean the one you are talking to understands how you define the term. So asking how many believe in Evolution if the question isn't well written as what that means, the results are useless. People can mouth the same phrases and not be saying the same thing at all.

Yes.

Actually Evolution is a misnomer. All you need for Evolution is change over time. This is not disputed by anybody. 

What is disputed, is UCD. Universal Common Descent. That is, can all life in our biosphere, be traced back to a common ancestor?

While this issue is still not decided with certainty, the evidence accumulated so far does give supporters of UCD reason to be optimistic.

Common design would different how?

All the ants in your back yard adapt to the pesticide you been using, because you always used the same one every summer, that's Evolution.

They evolved. Big deal, right?

Common Descent is something much bigger than that.

TruthMuse
varelse1 wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:
varelse1 wrote:
TruthMuse wrote:

You can claim to believe in Evolution and deny common ancestry because Evolution is a vague term that has to be defined. You may know what you mean when you say the word; that doesn't mean the one you are talking to understands how you define the term. So asking how many believe in Evolution if the question isn't well written as what that means, the results are useless. People can mouth the same phrases and not be saying the same thing at all.

Yes.

Actually Evolution is a misnomer. All you need for Evolution is change over time. This is not disputed by anybody. 

What is disputed, is UCD. Universal Common Descent. That is, can all life in our biosphere, be traced back to a common ancestor?

While this issue is still not decided with certainty, the evidence accumulated so far does give supporters of UCD reason to be optimistic.

Common design would different how?

All the ants in your back yard adapt to the pesticide you been using, because you always used the same one every summer, that's Evolution.

They evolved. Big deal, right?

Common Descent is something much bigger than that.

I agree