The Harsh Reality of these Changes

Opinions have been asked for and I hope this one is taken seriously coming from a person who has loved and supported 4pc since I first learned of the game. I understand that change is often necessary and people aren’t going to like it, but some change isn’t necessary and in fact takes steps in the wrong direction. - Delan March 27th 2022

I feel Delan's post covered a lot of the big grievances that myself and others have so I encourage everyone, who has not already, to read his post "Opinion wanted, Here's Mine" from which the above quote is from. Instead I want to focus on a couple points namely; Growth of 4PC through Twitch, A Top Players Point of View.

A Top Players Point of View:

For those who do not know, Starcraft is an RTS developed by Blizzard that is widely accredited to starting the boom of serious E-Sports. The reason I bring this is up is because the design philosophy of blizzard with regard to the game was simple, make balance changes based around performance of the strongest players whilst focusing the remaining resources on meeting community demands i.e. "The Arcade" and "Co-Op" mode of which the vast vast majority of the player base made up. Through successive expansions they would release new units but be more than willing to completely scrap them late into the process if it was shown that they were not a popular addition to the game (see Replicants and Warhounds in HotS). RuneScape, one of the most popular browser based MMORPG's of all time is still going strong with its most popular mode still being Old School RuneScape in which decisions on what does and does not get added is entirely based upon community polls. DotA has an annual tournament funded by players which has reached prize pools of over $20,000,000. 

What are the two things all of the above have in common? They are at the absolute top of their respective genres of game and they gear a lot of their design based upon the input from their community and are open to change/giving the community a say in the direction of their game.

This latter point however is being blatantly disregarded it appears for 4PC. Despite the numerous complaints and objections to the current changes, the development and administrative team responsible have not addressed, nor shown a willingness to, these issues and are instead dead set in their decisions to continue to move forward. Not only this but the plethora of issues that have occurred is quite frankly unacceptable for something that has supposedly been in the making for over a year, the merge itself was unnecessary but the execution of it has been beyond appalling. Over the past few months myself and other top players have voiced genuine concern several times regarding this change in starting position including engaging in several hour long calls with people such as Grable to try to get a grip on the reasons why they are going ahead. Although we were often met with a guise of "being open" to criticism it was very clear that these concerns were not taken to heart and that in fact these decisions were not based on the best interest of the community as a whole but instead in the interests of the administrative teams. FFA -> SFA (despite my agreeing with this at high ratings) was Arseneys idea as he preferred Solo to FFA. Jonas, who was another admin, I have the utmost respect for prefers Solo over FFA. You can see how the personal preferences of the admin team begin to dictate the direction of the game whilst the admin team should be acting in a fiduciary capacity which is clearly not the case. Often the argument was used that they had consulted other "Top Players" but in reality this excuse was weak as those consulted consisted entirely of members of the admin team resulting in a confirmation bias cycle. We had a month long test tournament (which btw was something that Matttin and I came up with and introduced to the admin team) which yielded a lot of the reactions that we are seeing today however the admin team did not take heed. 

Now I could continue with examples but it should be clear by now. These decisions were not made in the best interest of the community but in fact the vested interests of the admin team at hand. The community feels disregarded and rightly outraged and instead of addressing this they have simply ignored anything that does not conform with the current set of changes (see spacebar actively commenting on idea implementation suggestions in the variants forum but no admin has of yet to reply to the various complaints from their community). This game is nothing without its community and how you choose to treat them will determine the success or failure of this game.

Growth of 4PC through Twitch:

For those who don't know, I started streaming in November of 2020 and was first introduced to 4 Player Chess by Chuckmoulton (twitch partner) in January of 2021 after which it became all I streamed. At the time the only people who streamed 4PC were Jonas, fourplayerchess (Luke), Chuck and myself. I had just made affiliate with a little over 50 followers but as the year progressed I began to build a real following averaging over 20 unique viewers per stream and having north of 800 followers as of the start of March. During this time several other streams have popped up and begun regularly showcasing 4PC such as ChaChaChess, kidbuuJohan, Grathieben, ProfBlundermaster and Martinaxo_JakeMate. This has led to an explosion in exposure of the game to the wider public through these streams. We were actively working to increase the popularity of 4PC through collaborations and diligently streaming our successes and failure as we climbed the ladder in all modes whilst explaining to new people. You may have noticed an uptick in the last year of the number of big streamers and titled players who have played 4PC (this is almost entirely due to the efforts of us as streamers not the administrative team) such as TheBelenkaya, twitchlezgo, Keti_chess and GM TheLastSamurai to name a few. 

Without disclosing too much I have also made a fair share of money from streaming 4PC however I will note that all this has gone right back into 4PC usually in the form of gifted subs and donations to other streams in order to get them to try out 4PC. I can say that this is true of several other of the 4PC streamers meaning we take a very very active role, both fiscally and not, in growing and promoting the game. We as streamers pour money into trying to build this community and our opinions end up getting treated as if they do not exist and are irrelevant so naturally we feel outraged. Chuckmoulton who is the only twitch partnered 4pc streamer has officially declared that he will no longer be streaming 4pc due to these changes, ProfBlundermaster is vehemently against them and you all know my opinion by now. One of the big growth potentials of 4PC has been because of our active involvement in promoting this game however you choose to show no respect to our efforts making us feel that our hard work is unappreciated, which it is. 

Closing Remarks:

Now, there is a lot more I could go on about but for those who don't know I have something calling hEDS which makes doing things like typing in any quantity extremely painful and difficult (just to give you some perspective on what it takes for me to write the above). I don't expect a single member of the admin team to respond or to even regard anything that has been said above because quite frankly I've lost all respect in you for the way you have treated the community as a whole. I sincerely hope you realise the error of your ways and make decisions based upon what is in the best interest of the community but I honestly doubt that will happen, please prove me wrong.

+1

Radon's post isn't spam, its one of the few anti-merge posts that are actually constructive.

Whatever ig i didn't read this lol

4 player chess is eventually going to feel a decline in players due to administrators not listening to constructive feedback made by dedicated players like you. 

Hard agree with @radon .

The Admins need to stop neglecting the community and stop doing what they want to do.

This is actual feedback with work put into writing it...

Agreed.

Why am not able to see any players in chess.com

i am above 2000

Good job providing constructive criticism.  What are the odds that admins will take our feedback, recognize that some changes weren't thoroughly thought out, and implement the changes the community actually wants?

* Old Standard as Main Standard.  

* Leave FFA how it was, Solo was dead for a reason. 

I don't know a single person who wanted Omatamix as the *Main Standard* after playing the month-long arena.  

I hate the merge btw

I keep getting under 2000 due to getting 4th place, but I see where you're going with this. 

It is important to segment, on which issues we agree, with respect to the Events.

There are many "Changes Made", to enumerate, we name the following situations:

1.- Configuration or new Server for 4PC merged with Variants.

My opinion: I liked the previous traditional setup much better; since it was an independent or exclusive sector for 4PC. But the new setup is not difficult to use, I just hope it works well. If they made this change to enhance the other game rooms like Chaturanga, Chaturaji, Gothic Chess, Petrified, among others, well, it seems like a good administrative strategy to me.

2.- Initial Position of the King, (Old Standard V/S Omatamix New Standard).

My opinion: Absolutely agree with Omatamix for higher levels of FFA over 2300+ since everyone performs movements and combined games system to attack the wings, remember that it is allowed to make an alliance with your opposite in FFA. Therefore, it doesn't matter how good a player you are or the green player is, if blue doesn't help at all, green will die. I have always considered that situation very unfair for greens. The vast majority of high-level players are aware of this and no one questions it.

In TEAM games, it has no influence, since both must fight together for the entire game.

In games 2300+ downwards, it does not matter because everyone plays independently and they are not played in combination with the opposite, therefore green pieces do not lose or do not suffer that initial positional disadvantage.

Note: I don't see it as a problem anyway. since there is the option to play OLD Standard.

But my position, I still prefer that the correct position for the king is OMATAMIX, it is more fair for Green pieces. In any case, I'll still play old standard, no problem, the option exists and it's up to you.

3.- The game rooms of the SOLO category are eliminated.

My opinion: Honestly, it is completely indifferent to me since I did not like to play in SOLO for 2 reasons:

a.- They were eternal games of more than 45 minutes sometimes and it was a very closed game positionally, (boring for me), but I am aware that many players did like to play in SOLO.

b.- Because I didn't like the elo points system since only the first place wins and the remaining 3 players lose their points.

4.- Scoring system in FFA Rapid, the first place wins points and 3 players lose their points, (1 wins and 3 lose).

My opinion: I don't like it, I don't agree. It's like they merged the SOLO scoring system into FFA Rapid. I really hope they fix this, or please leave it as it is in FFA Bullet and Blitz where you win 2 and lose 2.

5.- Scoring system in FFA Bullet and Blitz, first and second place win points, and third and fourth player lose their points, (2 win and 2 lose).

My opinion: It's ok

Example of 2 games today 03-26-2022

points system

FFA Rapid ( win 1 - lose 3 )

https://www.chess.com/variants/4-player-chess/game/25553115/0/4

FFA Blitz y Bullet (ganar 2 - perder 2)
https://www.chess.com/variants/4-player-chess/game/25509038/0/4

I emphasize the letter written by Radon, since the 4PC community does it all, and it is important to have an active opinion of the frequent players and the best 4PC players, they have always been the main motivation for me to beat them every day to day and now when this happens, of so many changes, not much has been seen since what happened in this new update, which is worrying for the future of 4PC.

I very much respect everyone's opinion here, even when I disagree with some, but I respect and listen to them; our rivalry in battle does not make us enemies in the social network of chess.com and Twitch; which is where we actively participate with everyone.

I want to see the response and/or opinions regarding the mentioned changes, at least see the opinions of the active players in 4PC.

I want to feel the active presence of the Administrators, taking into account the active opinions of frequent users on the platform, so that the community feels heard and increases over time, since that is the ultimate goal, to achieve growth and overall conformity.

See you in another Battle!

------------------------------------------------

Es importante segmentar, en que temas estamos de acuerdo, con respecto a los Acontecimientos.

Son Muchos los "Cambios Realizados", para enumerar, nombramos las siguientes situaciones:

1.- Setup o Server nuevo para 4PC fusionado con Variantes.

Mi opinión: Me gustaba mucho mas el setup anterior tradicional; ya que era un sector independiente o exclusivo para 4PC. Pero el nuevo setup no es difícil de ocupar, solo espero que funcione bien. Si hicieron este cambio para potenciar las otras salas de juego como Chaturanga, Chaturaji, Gothic Chess, Petrified, entre otros, bueno me parece una buena estrategia administrativa.

2.- Posición Inicial del Rey, (Old Standard V/S Omatamix New Standard).

Mi opinión: Absolutamente de acuerdo con Omatamix para niveles superiores de FFA sobre 2300+ ya que todos realizan movimientos y sistema de juegos combinados para atacar a los laterales, recordemos que esta permitido hacer alianza con tu opuesto en FFA. Por lo tanto, no importa que tan buen jugador seas o sea el jugador verde, si azul no ayuda en nada, verde morirá. esa situación siempre lo he considerado muy injusto para verdes. La gran mayoría de jugadores de alto nivel, es consciente de aquello y nadie lo pone en discusión.

En partidas de TEAM, no influye en nada, ya que ambos deben pelear en conjunto durante toda la partida.

En partidas 2300+ hacia abajo, no influye porque todos juegan de modo independiente y no se ven jugadas en combinación con el opuesto, por lo tanto piezas verdes no pierden o no sufre esa desventaja posicional inicial.

Nota: De todas formas no lo veo como un problema. ya que existe la opción de jugar OLD Standard.

Pero mi postura, sigue prefiriendo que es la posición correcta para el rey es OMATAMIX, es mas justo para piezas Verdes. De todas formas igual jugare old standard, no hay problema, la opción existe y es a elección.

3.- Se elimina las salas de juego de la categoría SOLO.

Mi opinión: Sinceramente, me es completamente indiferente ya que no me gustaba jugar en SOLO por 2 razones:

a.- Eran partidas eternas de mas de 45 minutos a veces y era un juego muy cerrado posicionalmente, (Aburrido para mi), pero soy consciente de que a muchos jugadores si les gustaba jugar en SOLO.

b.- Porque el sistema de puntos elo no me gustaba ya que solo gana el primer lugar y pierden los 3 jugadores restantes sus puntos.

4.- Sistema de puntaje en FFA Rapid, gana el primer lugar puntos y pierden 3 jugadores sus puntos, (1 gana y 3 pierden).

Mi opinión: No me gusta, no estoy de acuerdo. Es como que fusionaron el sistema de puntaje de SOLO en FFA Rapid. Espero de verdad reparen esto, o que por favor lo dejen como se encuentra en FFA Bullet y Blitz en donde ganan 2 y pierden 2.

5.- Sistema de puntaje en FFA Bullet and Blitz, gana el primer y segundo lugar puntos, y pierden tercero y cuarto jugador sus puntos, (2 ganan y 2 pierden).

Mi opinión:  Esta bien

Ejemplo de 2 partidas de hoy 26-03-2022

Sistema puntos

FFA Rapid ( gana 1 - pierden 3 )
https://www.chess.com/variants/4-player-chess/game/25553115/0/4

FFA Blitz and Bullet ( ganan 2 - pierden 2)
https://www.chess.com/variants/4-player-chess/game/25509038/0/4

Hago énfasis en la carta redactada por Radon, ya que la comunidad de 4PC la hacemos todos, y es importante tener una opinión activa de los jugadores frecuentes y de los mejores jugadores de 4PC, ellos siempre para mi han sido la principal motivación de vencerlos día a día y ahora al ocurrir esto, de tantos cambios, no se les ha visto mucho desde lo acontecido en esta nueva actualización, lo cual es preocupante para el futuro del 4PC.

Respeto mucho la opinión de todos aquí, incluso cuando no estoy de acuerdo con algunos, pero los respeto y los escucho; nuestra rivalidad en batalla, no nos hace enemigos en la red social de chess.com y Twitch; que es donde participamos activamente con todos.

Quiero ver la respuesta y/o opiniones con respecto a los cambios mencionados, por lo menos ver las opiniones de los jugadores activos en 4PC. 

Quiero sentir la presencia activa de los Administradores, tomando consideración de las opiniones activas de los usuarios frecuentes en la plataforma, para que la comunidad se sienta escuchada y esta aumente con el paso del tiempo, ya que es ese el objetivo final, lograr crecimiento y conformidad global. 

Nos vemos en otra Batalla!

Saw @Matttin was mentioned in this article. Immediately disliked.

Martinaxo is right, we have to look at the issues separately.

There are in fact 4 major changes, a) the standard position, b) the standard timing, c) merge FFA/Solo, d) the presentation and graphical appearance.

My side, I don't like a) (and I believe that at least 80% prefer the previous set-up, despite of the fact that indeed it was unbalanced somehow for G) ; I don't care about b) (anyway people may launch games with the timing they want), I definitely like c) (because it doesn't affect weak and medium players, whereas it pushes the top players to play correctly instead of playing for 2nd, and the 4th place isn't an issue anymore), and as for d) I still have to get accustomed.

ANY CHANGE has always generated resistance, it's quite natural. The problem here is the one that Radon pointed out in-depth above: the CLEAR community views and preferences haven't been taken into account at all. It's clearly bad as for future of 4p chess, for obvious marketing reasons. A hobby can't develop if the views of the most active members are not paid attention to.

Did you need to quote a 9 paragraph post and add 1 sentence to it?

lol

In my opinion the admins just took away 4pc's distinctiveness and took away my incentive to play the game. Not only that but they reset almost all my ratings and basically disregarded my hard work. There are other outside factors that led to my departure of this beloved game but I would just like to announce that it is a possibility that I might never come back to this variant.