Theistic Evolution -- Should Christians consider Evolutionary Creationism?

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varelse1

https://biologos.org/common-questions/why-should-christians-consider-evolutionary-creation

Evolution is a challenging subject to consider in light of biblical faith, so it is often easier to ignore or reject it than to engage in meaningful discussion about the topic. Yet considering evolutionary creation has important benefits for Christians both in our relationship with the Creator, and in our relationships with other people—both believers and non-believers.
First, Christians should study evolution because, like all the natural sciences, it is the study of God’s creation. Creation itself is a complementary revelation to what God has communicated through Scripture, and through the created order God shows how and when he brought about the life we see today—to his honor and glory. The regular patterns in nature that we call natural laws have their foundation in the regular, faithful governance of God. Thus we believe that God created every species and did it in such a way that we can describe the creation process scientifically. The scientific model of evolution does not replace God as creator any more than the law of gravity replaces God as ruler of the planets.

varelse1

Second, considering evolutionary creation aids the church in its gospel mission, including discipling young Christians in their faith. An anti-evolution attitude can harm Christian young people by presenting them with a false choice between pursuing science or holding to faith. One recent survey showed that a key factor in the evangelical church’s loss of credibility among young people is its assertion of anti-evolutionary creation models that contradict virtually all of the evidence we find in nature. Similarly, a hostile attitude towards evolution can hinder evangelism if seekers hear that they must reject evolutionary science before they can follow Christ. On the other hand, studying evolution as a God-ordained process helps Christians refute the argument that science leads to an atheistic worldview. By showing that the science of evolution is a description of God’s processes and not a worldview in and of itself, Christians can expose atheism as secular philosophy and not part of science.
Because today’s culture is saturated with science and technology—from the latest communication gadgets to new biomedical advances to discoveries of fundamental particles—engaging culture means engaging science. Since evolutionary science is integral to modern biology, the church must grapple with the evidence and implications of evolution in order to be an effective witness in the public square. Informed Christian voices are critical for leading bioethical discussions on issues such as stem cells and the use of DNA information in caring for the unborn, the aged, and the disabled. Today, evangelical Christians can show that we love God’s work in the created order by taking up full participation in cutting-edge research and advocating for science as a tool to protect rather than prey upon the helpless.
Science is a way of loving God with our minds. When we seek to understand the created order through science we bear witness to the Creator and glorify him through our work.

Destroyer942

Both of your posts are 100% awesome! Can't even think of anything to add.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL

But still no proof. How can you assume we will all compromise our faith for a theory without proof? Bible says God created the earth is 6 days. It seems very simple and I would need a ton of evidence to look into a compromise.

Guineaster

It was not simple; on the 7th day God rested.

He was most likely tired.

 

 

Benjibass

God rested on the 7th day cause he finished making the earth.. The earth was made in 6 days spo this theory is wrong, and pls stop saying Quote" An anti-evolution attitude can harm Christian young people by presenting them with a false choice between pursuing science or holding to faith."

Evolution is a belief and religion, it is not science...

Quote "The scientific model of evolution does not replace God as creator any more than the law of gravity replaces God as ruler of the planets."

Scientific... here we go again..... God made this all, the chances of the universe hitting that 1:100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of something being made every stage is impossible.... Believing that there was a creator is a much more logical thing to believe than evolution. If i take the part and tools to make a phone or computer and i start randomly powering up machines and shaking a bag with the materials in there, what are the chances of it turning into a phone??? 1:infinite.

 

Destroyer942

Perhaps I am a bit biased here, because throughout my schooling I was only taught and shown evidence for evolution. But from what I can tell it seems like it is a scientific theory, not just a belief. I would however be interested in hearing the evidence for the other side, as I am sure evolution has a difficult time explaining everything. It is also important to remember that evolution being real does not prove anything against religion, all it does is provide a human understanding of a process created by God. It is also not the only process governing how living things change over time. It is my belief that God planed the many stages of Earth's development for humans to exist today, and intervened whenever necessary to make sure the individuals he intended survived to reproduce. That being said, what scientists call natural selection probably includes supernatural selection, where God made the decisions and thus controlled evolution. God has also made humans such an intellectually advanced species that we were able to start preserving lives of people who may not be "the fittest to survive", mostly stopping natural selection, which to me shows that it was His intention to create us humans specifically.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL

The only evidence I have heard for evolution are these "missing links" and God could of made them like that to start with. Also the geologic column is not good proof because a lot of stuff is not where it is supposed to be; I heard they found a tree growing though millions of years of rock layers. Thats obviously could not happen if the geologic column represents millions of years. Also there's the stare light thing but God could of made it with the light already on earth and also we do not know if light travels at the same speed all though space.  Is there more evidence that I'm missing?

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
Guineaster wrote:

It was not simple; on the 7th day God rested.

He was most likely tired.

 

 

Or he was setting a example of a healthy work week. A day off is very healthy I've heard 

Destroyer942
trump2020maga1 wrote:

The only evidence I have heard for evolution are these "missing links" and God could of made them like that to start with. Also the geologic column is not good proof because a lot of stuff is not where it is supposed to be; I heard they found a tree growing though millions of years of rock layers. Thats obviously could not happen if the geologic column represents millions of years. Also there's the stare light thing but God could of made it with the light already on earth and also we do not know if light travels at the same speed all though space.  Is there more evidence that I'm missing?

There is more evidence for evolution I think. For instance, hospital bacteria of deadly illnesses are now often immune to certain antibiotics, because only the bacteria with higher tolerance survived and reproduced, increasing the population of tolerant bacteria. Since bacteria reproduces really quickly, its evolution can be observed much faster then that of larger organisms, allowing us to witness the process. Another example would be all of the different dog breeds we've created by artificially selecting wolves with desirable traits. This took only a couple thousand years, So in 4.5 billion years all sorts of things could have happened. In addition, DNA tests show 98% of our DNA is identical to the chimpanzee, which is one of our closest relatives biologically. DNA has been shown to mutate, explaining the initial natural minor variations in the genetic code that can over time become widespread. If you look at similar species bone structure you will discover that the bones change throughout time, but the bones in many areas are often the same for many organisms, just slightly different shapes. This, like many other things, suggest that most organisms share common ancestors. In addition to rock layers, which like you pointed out are not always ideally stacked, scientists use carbon dating to discover the exact age of organic matter. That tree might have been an exception, but for the most part dinosaur fossils are found in the layer where one would expect to find them based on their layer's depth. As for light traveling at different speeds in space, the speed of light has been tested very accurately in a way that agrees with Einstein's theory of relativity, and there is no reason for this speed to change in the vacuum of space.

Benjibass

God would not use and did not use evolution....

PetecantbeatmeSLFL

Did the bacteria change into something more complicated? I do believe in micro evolution and i think the dogs prove that so isn't that all thats happening with the bacteria? 

Benjibass

Yeah but i have a question why arent all the apes evolving??

Destroyer942
Benjibass wrote:

Yeah but i have a question why arent all the apes evolving??

According to evolution, anything undergoing natural or sexual selection is evolving.

Destroyer942
trump2020maga1 wrote:

Did the bacteria change into something more complicated? I do believe in micro evolution and i think the dogs prove that so isn't that all thats happening with the bacteria? 

So do you agree with the dog example. Sorry it's a bit unclear what you're saying. It is a miracle that bacteria managed to combine to form more complex plant and animal cells with Nuclei, and function together in a way which created multi cellular organisms. So much so that it is most likely one of God's major interventions to allow life to develop.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
Destroyer942 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

Did the bacteria change into something more complicated? I do believe in micro evolution and i think the dogs prove that so isn't that all thats happening with the bacteria? 

So do you agree with the dog example. Sorry it's a bit unclear what you're saying. It is a miracle that bacteria managed to combine to form more complex plant and animal cells with Nuclei, and function together in a way which created multi cellular organisms. So much so that it is most likely one of God's major interventions to allow life to develop.

I was saying that your bacteria example might just be natural selection. We agree on natural selection 

Benjibass

I have a question, in your opinion, what would be a better way to make the world??? And keeping in mind that satan uses things to his own purposes when he can.... the answer is to just say what you want, and it comes to be.... evolution is the most cruel way to create life... And it already says in the Bible how God made the earth... We should never compromise..

Destroyer942
trump2020maga1 wrote:
Destroyer942 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

Did the bacteria change into something more complicated? I do believe in micro evolution and i think the dogs prove that so isn't that all thats happening with the bacteria? 

So do you agree with the dog example. Sorry it's a bit unclear what you're saying. It is a miracle that bacteria managed to combine to form more complex plant and animal cells with Nuclei, and function together in a way which created multi cellular organisms. So much so that it is most likely one of God's major interventions to allow life to develop.

I was saying that your bacteria example might just be natural selection. We agree on natural selection 

I'm glad we agree. So isn't evolution just a result of natural selection?

Destroyer942
Benjibass wrote:

I have a question, in your opinion, what would be a better way to make the world??? And keeping in mind that satan uses things to his own purposes when he can.... the answer is to just say what you want, and it comes to be.... evolution is the most cruel way to create life... And it already says in the Bible how God made the earth... We should never compromise..

Evolution does not create life, it simply changes things over time to adapt to new conditions or challenges. Our world can be harsh and unjust, living things would die either way. Evolution simply insures that it is the most survivalist creatures that pass on their genes so that in the future the organism isn't susceptible to the same danger.  In other words evolution doesn't make the choice of destroying a certain species or individuals, it makes the choice of who survives this destruction. Evolution is in fact driven by evil forces such as disease, fires and food shortages, which is one of the reasons heaven exists: to compensate for the injustices of this world. Despite this, evolution has allowed God to perfect us in very complex ways. Our bodies fight diseases at the cellular level in ways scientists don't completely understand. Our organs all have a unique purpose, perfectly and compactly arranged to serve that purpose on our body. Even on the cellular level the body seems like it was built by a well tested, carefully planned process. Evolution itself I would argue, is not evil, it is a response to evil so that life can be better equipped to deal with evil in the future. Now unfortunately I must confess I am really uneducated about my own faith, so I do not know what it says in the Bible about how God made the earth. Could you please enlighten me? I, like yourself, do not want to compromise our faith. God's word is the most important law in the world and should not be questioned, only understood. Where I went to school, there were many atheists who made fun of religious people and considered them to be less intelligent. They said religious people were science deniers, and that religion did not make sense. As somebody who likes and is interested in science, I found this deeply offensive. How can you study God's creations, many of which are too complex for us to fully understand, and then trash talk their Creator? Science and faith are compatible, all we have to do is understand faith in the context of modern science. For instance, back when the Bible was written, humans had no clue about the size of the Universe, what other stars were, and how the universe probably came from a big bang 13.8 billion years ago. Now that we found this out, it is fair to assume the Big Bang is the Creation the Bible speaks of, where God created matter, space, and time.

PetecantbeatmeSLFL
Destroyer942 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:
Destroyer942 wrote:
trump2020maga1 wrote:

Did the bacteria change into something more complicated? I do believe in micro evolution and i think the dogs prove that so isn't that all thats happening with the bacteria? 

So do you agree with the dog example. Sorry it's a bit unclear what you're saying. It is a miracle that bacteria managed to combine to form more complex plant and animal cells with Nuclei, and function together in a way which created multi cellular organisms. So much so that it is most likely one of God's major interventions to allow life to develop.

I was saying that your bacteria example might just be natural selection. We agree on natural selection 

I'm glad we agree. So isn't evolution just a result of natural selection?

https://creationtoday.org/evidence-for-a-young-earth/#   but the earth is not old