Theistic Evolution -- Should Christians consider Evolutionary Creationism?

Truth muse.

I can put a pen to paper, and write anything.

But that wont change anything that has happened outside the boundaries of that page.

Nobody can erase 13 billion years of history, with only a pen.

I don't care what brand of pen it is. No pen can do that.

This is true, you can write anything, not only that you can alter it as you go too. I've only been alive for 63 years now, so I cannot personally say I know that we have 13 billions of years of history, tomorrow it maybe 15 billion, or 9 billion who knows. Are you of a mind 13 billion years is a factual statement that will not be altered because something new comes up? Is it a fact or faith?

Neither fact, nor faith.

But rather strongly, strongly supported theory.

I think they were guesstimating about 20 billion years, around 1990. 

But then we launched the Hubble and WMAP satellites, and entered the Golden Age of Cosmology.

With these orbiting telescopes, we have been precisely able to see when galaxies first formed.

They very earliest galaxies, lie 13 billion light years away from our own.

Now I do expect it may vary, about 5% or so in the future, one way or the other.

But it would take a startling piece of evidence, to stretch it more than that.

I am going to have to ask you to define your terms. Neither fact, so you are leaving out reality and faith therefore it is not something we can put our trust in. This leaves us with an untrustworthy and unbelievable solution for us and you consider this a good idea?

Fact: something proven and explained beyond any doubt. (Not even Gravity fits this)

Faith: something accepted, in lieu of evidence.

Most every thing in Science and in our lives fall in between these two extremes.

Very little in Science has been the lofty title of Fact. Again, not even gravity. Heck, when it comes down to it, we don't even know what gravity is, exactly.

Most everything in Science is a Theory. Is just that some Theories have more evidence to back them, than others.

A 13B year-old universe is one of those Theories, has a lot of evidence right now.

Science is based on the philosophy of Scepticism.  And as such, it never deals in absolutes. Nothing is ever written in stone.

Theories are devised based on the available evidence.

If later new evidence appears, new theories may need to be developed, to replace the old ones.

But, and here's the rub, it can't just be any theory. I can't just say "Stars are all made of marshmallow" and expect everybody to blindly believe me, without question.

The new theory needs to better match the evidence available.

But now back to your point about Fact versus Faith.

We can put our trust in a lot of things that ateneithet of those.

Say we were about to watch a fight between Mike Tyson and - just an example - Dennis Nye. The Science Guy from TV .

Now if I had to bet who was going to win, I would prolly put my money on Tyson.

Is Tysons victory a fact yet? 

No. The fight hasn't happened yet. I cannot be positive what is going to happen.

But that doesn't mean Tyson is a bad bet either.

Not untrustworthy. 

And in no way unbelievable. 

To call my certainty in a Tyson victory "faith" would be a disservice to this noble word.

It's just a safe, safe bet.

Truth is one thing a fact is another, we can talk about facts and not alter the reality of them. We can talk about a rock, its color, weight, size, and on and on. We can misjudge the rock and guess at its actual size and weight and so on, the rock doesn't change its a rock while our words about it can be truthful or not with respect to the reality of the rock. The truth of our words concerning the rock will depend upon what we say about that rock that is true about that rock or what is wrong about that rock.

Faith is no different than claiming we trust in something, I can in good faith do this because I believe that will occur. I trust whatever it was that makes me think that. So there is faith in science for a number of reasons, first being we believe science is away to gather actually information about the universe we live in. If we didn't think that was possible would we bother?

Okay yes.

I have faith in Science.

I'm not saying it's right 100% of the time.

But it is way ahead of whatevers in second place.

You have more faith in science than the Bible.

You have faith in man? It isn't like you can separate man and science.

Facts and truth are the only things that can tell us if we are right or wrong how we reach them doesn't really matter.

Well, certain men.

I have faith I  am in no way qualified to contradict every PhD on the planet.

Doctors who have dedicated their lives to studying a particular field.

Even if they are all wrong, I am sure I am not the one to say it.

Usually.

(But for honesty's sake, I did once successfully outguess all the PhDs, as a teenager. But that was because I was lucky. Not because I am some sort of genius.)

But most the time, no.

If a Grandmaster tells me this new gambit just came out is unsound, I will bow to his expertise. 

If you want to define that as faith, very well.

Most call it common sense.

I wouldnt go that far.

Mankind has a history of thinking up terrible ways to find truth.

Predicting the weather with a radar? Good way.

Predicting the weather reading tea leaves? Not as reliable.

It needs to be said. Some ways are much, much better than others.

Yes, I was speaking to broadly. There are many things we ought not have done, because the ends don't justify the means. Still truth and facts are of themselves a part from lies and errors.

It isn't a matter of how I want to define faith; it was defined that way for some time. That is until not too long ago; it seems to have been connected to religion nearly exclusively in such a way that diminished both the word faith and religion itself.

Anyway, any more questions?

Yes, but life has me doing other things at this time.

Stay safe, man.

Also, varelse1, I am DIGGIN' that pfp!