Obviously “losing” is the incorrect equation. And obviously fools aren’t wise.
On a “thorough” note..
this game is dead
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Are we talking about a game to be played for fun or a competitive scene? I don't think the variant has much potential to be played in big events with prize money. Of course I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Tell that to poker...
I think the fact that the game has a luck factor, a human factor, that it's not deterministic... is a great asset. It makes it multidimensional.
The fact that people might make stupid moves which are bad for them and for you is something you need to take into account, just as people having certain playstyles you don't agree with. In the end if they do better than you it means they are playing better than you for the current state of the game.
Also if this was played competitively, part of being a top player would involve knowing different player's games so you know how to play against them specifically.
Nov 5, 2017
0
#5
Ne2willdo wrote:
Free-for-all 4 player chess will not work. Too much luck is involved, too much cheating, too few people understand anything.
The team play will be the real thing, team play where you get to chose your partner. Now people will not be able to cheat. the best team will win.
What exactly do you call cheating? Show (or describe) a few examples, please.
he thinks people are colluding in like IMing/etc. because he probably got attacked by the opponent on his left and then got vultured by the other two and got mad.
Settlers of Catan is a board game for 3 or 4 players with even more luck involved. It is played with dice, and cards picked at random. It is a popular game, although it is already 22 years old. There are no signs of dying out any time soon. A world championship is held every year, with national qualifiers and such. Here is an illustrative game (with good commentary, but too loud sound). I think that 4-player chess has the potential of becoming equally successful.
The comment about "luck" is accurate but the quality of the game he is talking about is "randomness". When that randomness results in the best/a better player not achieving an "expected" result then they get mad. The best player in poker doesn't always win; the best baseball team isn't always WS champion. That doesn't make those games "dead".
It's a different game than standard chess. The best players will rise like cream. And there will be occasions the 2000 rated player will finish last vs three 1550s.
Nov 5, 2017
0
#9
EyeKnows wrote:
It's a different game than standard chess. The best players will rise like cream. And there will be occasions the 2000 rated player will finish last vs three 1550s.
And the examples are here: https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/to-inspire-the-players
Are the best players expected to win? Yes, but not nearly as often as in standard chess. Once we add Glicko, ratings will not swing as much and we will see some players consistently outperform others. We already see the same 40 players are constantly in the top 10 and hence that shows me that the game is not nearly as volatile as we might think. Regarding pregame teaming, it's much harder than you might think. The chances of you being placed in a game with a friend are extremely unlikely. Also that is one of the reasons the abort button was removed. Without the ability to abort games pre-arranged teamed is ALOT harder.
Nov 5, 2017
0
#12
@battleMind24, Please make a larger Top list. Like Top50. I am sure it is a simple task if you have Top10 already. If you select 10 players by a SQL query from your database you need to change 1 line of code + 1 more line in UI code (replace "Top10" word with "Top50"). It is simple and easy. Thank you in advance.
Publishing the top 100 (or more) in a forum post from time to time could also be nice.
Also @battleMind24, at the top of the ratings it is quite likely that you get in the same game with a friend. If I observe a game with high rated players and then start a new one after that one finishes I am quite likely to get paired with one of the players I watched. Even big games such as hearthstone has this problem when streamers get targeted by someone entering the queue at the same time.
I'm not sure if you would succeed above or below 50% of the time, but it is likely enough to be a problem. Still for now I think having no abort option is a good enough of a solution.
1) @MateThief I agree completely
2) @skeftomilos Settlers of catan is not too much about luck anymore, the latest expansion has cards instead of dices, so it's much more about probabilities
3) true what Martin0 says, but the solution there it's pretty easy, make the players anonymous while they play... I really don't see how that could be bad and has some interesting advantages
It would be amazing to have a top 50-100 leaderboard, as well as full statistics on rankings for every player. I don't think this game is dead. It's just different from standard chess. There's clearly a lot of skill involved. As BattleMind said, if it was all luck, we would have a very unstable top 10, and the ratings would be very unstable. The luck factor that is present in 4 player chess is part of what makes it so much fun. It's a beautiful mixture of luck and skill.
when you see players like wraku going down to to the low 1700s, on par with players who cant find a mate in one, there is a problem. I see very weak players winning games against very strong players. All they can do is push pawns and avoind each others, and then they atack the high rated player because hes a threath to them. There is no fun in that.
Of course you have to be good to make it to the top 10. For those who compare it to poker: Poker is GAMBLING! There is no point in playing poker if there is no money involved. The poker industry lets people believe poker is a game of skill, and there is some skill involved, but never as much as they would let you beleive.
I have played 100s of games of 4 chess, if not thousands already. I think I understand the game as well as anybody atthis point in time. I've been on the leaderboard most of this time. I'm telling you: Team play is the type of 4 chess that has a future.
Nov 5, 2017
0
#19
Ne2willdo wrote:
when you see players like wraku going down to to the low 1700s, on par with players who cant find a mate in one, there is a problem.
Wraku98 made a decision to lower his rating himself. He started several games in a row and abandoned them without making a move. And it was not a disconnection issue, it was his decision. He told it to me in the chat. You can ask him about the reason, I am not going to answer for other person. Right now Wraku89 has a rating of 1850. And if he wants he can return to the Top10 in a day or two, definitely.
@babygun
There is blatant cheating once in a while. It has happened to me about 5 times so far in hundreds of games. But there is also subtle, legal cheating, where weak players understand they have no chance against a strong player, and they all ignore each other, make queens, and all attack the strong player who cannot do anything about it. This is probbaly the reason why wraku allowed his rating to go down willfully, in order to be able to play... the game is a lot more fun when your rating is low. I also asked wraku about his rating and he said something like: it's impossible to win when everyone teams up on you
a 1900+ player should never be matched with a bunch of 1500s. It's like taking a lion and dropping it in a pool full of pirhanas, its a sad thing to see.
Free-for-all 4 player chess will not work. Too much luck is involved, too much cheating, too few people understand anything.
The team play will be the real thing, team play where you get to chose your partner. Now people will not be able to cheat. the best team will win.
I look forward to that. Fools will always lose.