Variants Poll: What changes to Chaturaji do you prefer?

Hello Variants players!

We recently raised the issue of the rating system in Chaturaji. The main "problem" is that there are a lot of games with playing for 2nd and teaming/collaboration cases that are extremely hard to verify (yet we're doing this!). We have several possible actions (changes) we can make, so we would like to bring this up to community to hear your feedback and thoughts, especially from high-rated chaturaji players. Thus, we're opening a Variants Poll with 3 questions that we (admin team) will consider in further decision making. All Chaturaji players who belong to at least one of the categories listed below will receive a poll when the Variants page is loaded.

Understanding the problem with FFA/Solo in Chaturaji

FFA

In FFA, the points distribution is defined as "+3  +1  -1  -3" (not taking Glicko RD into consideration). Therefore, the second place receives the amount of points that is equal to 1/3 of what the first place gains, which is usually a good amount of points. While this compensates an extreme imbalance of the game (sometimes, the game outcome is fully undecided by specific player), it also encourages playing for second, which, first, reduces the game quality and makes others (3rd and 4th place who expected 2nd to play for a win) feel bad and, second, encourages pre-arranged teaming of two players that is very difficult to track.

Solo

In Solo, the points distribution is defined as "+4  -1.3  -1.3  -1.3," which means the 1st place gets 4 wins, and 2nd-4th all lose equally with 1.33 losses. This eliminates any sort of playing for second and forces everyone to play for the first place, which increases the game quality a lot, as well as solves the teaming issues at once. However, due to the balance issues in Chaturaji, players may (and will) lose their points even if they played literally perfectly, because of power imbalance leading to a low control of a single player over the whole game outcome.

Poll questions

Question 1.  Would you allow optional Solo mode in Chaturaji?

Optional solo mode is an option for players rated above XXXX (e.g. 2100 or 2300) to play a solo game. Such games will have a min rating restriction of XXXX and will not be available for anyone having a lower rating.

Question 2.  Would you change FFA to SFA in Chaturaji?

SFA is a smooth transition from FFA to Solo. Games with a low average rating of players in a game (e.g. 1500) will use FFA that will gradually change to Solo as the average rating grows. The pure solo point within the transition is defined by admins and is set to XXXX (e.g. 2100 or 2300). Refer to this post to see more details about SFA (morph), FFA, and Solo.

Question 3.  Would you make Chaturaji Anonymous by default?

Anonymous does a great job in preventing teaming against higher-rated players and strives to reduce any player-targeting and pre-arranged teaming in general. Making Anonymous default will make most of the chaturaji games anonymous (i.e. chat disabled, player username and rating hidden). This may (and most likely will) hurt new players who wish to communicate and see who they're playing against by default, however will encourage a better average game quality. The Anonymous option can still be disabled manually by anyone when creating a new queue.

How the polls work?

Q: Is it anonymous?
A: Yes. However, some players data, such as rating, may be used for statistics.

Q: Is it possible to view, change or cancel selected option after voting?
A: No.

Q: How much time do I have to vote?
A: Polls duration may vary, however, this poll will last 2 weeks.

Q: Why can't I see the poll?
A: Each poll has a target group of players determined by players rating. Only this group of players can see the poll. If you are a member of such group according to the table above, but still don't see the poll, please reload the page. Polls are only loaded when the page loads.

Q: Is there a way to see updates on the voting results?
A: No. However, in some cases, after voting is completed, the admin team may publish the results.

Results

See results here.

Finally, these changes are being proposed officially! You are great, guys!

As for game balance, there have been ideas in the Chaturaji community to make a king worth 5 points (or even 10) in solo mode. Imo it would encourage more active and aggressive play, and avoid simple piece exchanges as they would not be as effective. Also king sacrificing for a piece will become less effective in terms of securing 1st place.

Also, many have suggested reducing the value of the bishop to 3 or 4, as it is obviously weaker than the rook, and very often weaker than even the knight.
For example, I often exchange the bishop for a knight or sacrifice it for 2 passed pawns, and it is usually effective.

On the variants server 
https://www.chess.com/variants

Hi SirRandomChess

I am glad that you present your ideas and visions about the effectiveness of the game, it is precisely what we are looking for, increasing quality.

Chaturaji is a materialistic game, points are very important during the game, each piece capture is very relevant and can define the game very quickly. Therefore, I consider what you mention interesting, regarding the value of the pieces you propose, we would have to analyze it.

Currently, 4PC has an optimal rating system, which has allowed us to obtain quality games at higher levels and control inflation in terms of ELO rating.

In the recent year 2023, Chaturaji showed increasing inflation in terms of ELO rating, reaching the top player from 2400 to 2700, which is within the normal and is excellent since it has increased in popularity over time. Previous years 2022 and back, the players did not exceed 2500 rating.

I would love for the next competition to be rated, very strict and of quality, where everyone seeks to obtain first place, without settling for second place. The format SOLO for higher levels will make it a solid game, where playing strength, tenacity and precision will prevail.

Good day!

Hi jackityjackjack I agree with you, I think there should always be both alternatives available, whether in public or anonymous format.

NA

im glad they r doing this

you should choose to do SFA/FFA

If we allow optional solo, will it share a rating with the FFA counterpart? I feel like allowing solo will, quite literally, break the ratings if it's not contained in its own bubble.

Not really, I think it may even benefit the game as we see high rated players with ridiculous 100+ rating deviation and losing 200 rating a game from FFA, Solo sharing a rating might encourage higher rated play and more accurate ratings in turn as only the winner can get points and everyone loses a moderate amount

True, but with a solo game some beginner might just hang all their pieces and then you lose more elo. I guess if we chose a high rating for min solo it's good though, but I've played a few games near Christmas and 2100s aren't really that good. I'm kinda rusty too tbh so I can sometimes blunder but still can know their play is quite sketchy nowadays.

while not created by solo, solo would make it worse. In FFA you just bail out and get 2nd and at least don't lose a ton of rating. In solo, you would instantly lose 1.33, which is even worse than a 3rd place in FFA, and we know a 3rd place can hurt you quite badly if you are a high rated player.

@Broken_ratings99

What you are indicating is not entirely correct.

When you enter a game queue where the level is higher, whether for example 2300 or 2400+, when everyone has a high level, the loss is completely fair for the other 3 players, neither high nor low, normal, even I dare say that it hardly affects your rating at all.

This is proven, it is a matter of seeing the results of the games in 4pc FFA.

The calculation and explanation are even posted on the 4pc club forum; if this is implemented, clearly there will be a format for it in Chaturaji. There is nothing to worry about for everyone, the main goal is to have that option SOLO as an additional alternative to what already exists, I consider this to be the best way, rather than modifying.

It will be an option that will allow comparative points to be made between one format and another and to see how those games develop, which will be visible to everyone.

For high rated queues, it's fine to allow solo, but it would have to be 2300+ or 2400+ like you mentioned, not 2000+ or 2100+

Well, no. Solo was disabled for players under 2100 for 4 Player Chess because higher rated players were abusing the rating system to squeeze more rating out of 1500s, and also because it’s not a rewarding system to play under for inexperienced players who play each other without knowing about what Solo is (or even if they do, how to properly balance the game so that it works out) and thus make the games less about skill. Obviously there is a lot of beginner-friendliness that goes into this, but it’s necessary.

The notion that we are talking about “any player that actually cares” is strange because a lot of strong Chaturaji players started off playing standard 4 Player Chess and thus can draw parallels between the two, even as the two variants are different.

Well, suppose a really good player joins 2000+ queues because he wants to and loses some rating. Then he plays some games with 2400s and they all lose rating. The whole point of a rating system is to accurately rate the players and if we end up with different outcomes of the same rating only depending on what game you play, then it is not a good rating ladder. I feel like creating a separate rating for solo is the best way to deal with this.

We have rating restrictions for that reason?

Yeah, but he can still do it for fun, not everyone plays to get his rating the highest, and that should not influence others who don't want to lose rating to that kind of underrated players.

Please don’t ignore me 😅

yes, im just making the point that we need a high enough one and it mught be better to just use a separate rating.