Windows of opportunities vs. building life

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stephen_33

"When you are for sure something is a fact, that is actually a bias"?

This is incorrect as it's stated. There're many things regarding the actual state of the Universe about which we have reliable knowledge. For example, contrary to earlier centuries, we can be extremely confident that our planet orbits the Sun & not the other way round.

Do you hold such a belief to be nothing more than 'bias'?

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

"When you are for sure something is a fact, that is actually a bias"?

This is incorrect as it's stated. There're many things regarding the actual state of the Universe about which we have reliable knowledge. For example, contrary to earlier centuries, we can be extremely confident that our planet orbits the Sun & not the other way round.

Do you hold such a belief to be nothing more than 'bias'?

I don't assume things are true just because I believe they are, I have to say that I can be wrong. Facts are not the same things as beliefs, facts will just be confirmed as long as we are properly looking at them, while matters of faith or our bias can change due to new information.

stephen_33

Perhaps you expessed yourself poorly?

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

Perhaps you expessed yourself poorly?

I have said nothing about information that cannot be validated in the present, you have expressed things you believe are true millions and billions of years ago as if that can be shown factual. You have done this with the powerful argument, that there is no reason not believe it isn't possible. I think you should ponder truth in the here and now a little more. We all have bias, you and I both do, so getting past that to the real truth in any discussion is how close to reality can we show it is. If you are going to judge truth by using your worldview you are only seeing how close something it is to how it agrees with you. That makes you the only one you have keep happy, only you decide.

stephen_33

In the more profound questions we wrestle with, such as how did the Universe come into being, how did life start & what is consciousness, we have to answer truthfully that we don't yet know. Perhaps we never will.

But the one thing we should resist is wild speculation. Lacking understanding of some process is no excuse for making vaulting leeps of the imagination into make-believe & superstition.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

In the more profound questions we wrestle with, such as how did the Universe come into being, how did life start & what is consciousness, we have to answer truthfully that we don't yet know. Perhaps we never will.

But the one thing we should resist is wild speculation. Lacking understanding of some process is no excuse for making vaulting leeps of the imagination into make-believe & superstition.

 

Well, I agree with you here, we cannot know because we were not there. What we can do is look at the evidence in the here and now, looking for the best possible explanation that fits what we know is real. I go back to the same ole point I have been making since we have started talking, informational instructions. This is a specific type of information, not one found anywhere other than from a mind. (show me another source if I'm wrong)

There are all kinds of information so as not to be confusing, we can bring up there is information in the word "worldview." There is information in only the letters that make up the word "deilorwwv" as well, just another type or level. The arraignment of the letters, however, is quite another, that type isn't going to spring up by undirected natural causes. Thus just looking at the material in the material world alone isn't likely to identify the kind of informational content we are talking about. Just seeing the letters isn't enough, being able to read them as thoughts, is quite different.

So it even takes a mind to identify these, too! This is a profound point, in my opinion! Some have said that the fact we can look at the universe and understand it says something about the nature of the universe and our minds. The universe has been laid out so we could grasp it as we do the information in our language.

 

Are you using your imagination telling me what occurred millions or billions of years ago?

varelse1
stephen_33 wrote:

We can only claim to know the truth of some matter when we're sure we know what's the fact of the matter. We don't yet know how exactly life emerged but we can make certain assumptions about it.

If I wake up one morning & find my back garden is soaking wet, it's reasonable for me to conclude that it rained during the night.

Perhaps one of my neighbours with an over-active imagination believes this was the result of alien activity, another, the action of angels sprinkling my garden with holy water.

I can't prove that these other explanations are false but that doesn't mean any reasonable person should think they're credible. It's about drawing the most reasonable conclusions about matters, given what we already know.

Could be your neighbor had an over-active sprinkler system, of course.

stephen_33

I haven't any idea what "informational instructions" are even supposed to be?

I just tried Googling it - the top result is 'spoken communications made by judges' but I don't suppose that's what you have in mind?

It sounds like one of those hopelessly vague concepts invented by creationists in order to try to challenge evolutionary theory.

stephen_33

Inference is an immensely powerful tool. When we observe other galaxies & measure their relative movement & velocities, we notice that they're all moving away from each other & even accelerating.

From this we can quite reasonably infer that in the past they were closer to one another & if we rewind time to its beginning, we can conclude that the Universe occupied a very small volume.

We don't need a time machine in order to be able to do this, just to make the most reasonable inferences from what we already know.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

I haven't any idea what "informational instructions" are even supposed to be?

I just tried Googling it - the top result is 'spoken communications made by judges' but I don't suppose that's what you have in mind?

It sounds like one of those hopelessly vague concepts invented by creationists in order to try to challenge evolutionary theory.

 

Really, think about it stop signs and stop lights are things that cause us as we drive to stop and go. They would be useless unless they convey instructions in the system they were built for and recognize their meaning and purpose. We have blood clotting in our bodies. If the internal instructions within the body don't stop and start as required, then we will bleed out, or blood clotting will continue until we die. We have a formational structure in your body, bones that are formed just so not in any random manner each time! The more reasonable inference for you is that everything only works because there was nothing that caused all of these to work precisely as required?

 

You are drawing your inferences make things fit your worldview. What would cause you to see errors if the only things that are true and reasonable are not in your worldview? If you only accept or even entertain those things that agree with you, and not allow your worldview to be challenged, you'll remain where you are comfortable but in a place of your own making by design.

stephen_33

The natural world is self-organising in a number of ways, so it needn't be a problem to accept that all manner of organised systems come about as a result of entirely natural processes.

Some people may object to that & such objections are noted.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

The natural world is self-organising in a number of ways, so it needn't be a problem to accept that all manner of organised systems come about as a result of entirely natural processes.

Some people may object to that & such objections are noted.

 

You are not looking at evidence you are assuming what you believe is true to suggest life just happens.

stephen_33

If everything that occurred after the coming into existence of the very first lifeform appears entirely naturalistic, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the coming into existence of the first life was as well.

Give a compelling reason for not believing this, based on current scientific understanding.

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

If everything that occurred after the coming into existence of the very first lifeform appears entirely naturalistic, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the coming into existence of the first life was as well.

Give a compelling reason for not believing this, based on current scientific understanding.

I suggest that you watch the link I gave, we can discuss where you think science was not done properly in that presentation.

stephen_33

I'll put it on my to-do list!

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

I'll put it on my to-do list!

Thank you, looking forward to your opinion.

stephen_33

You have no idea how long my 'to-do' list is!  😉

TruthMuse

Its a video, you already started it once.

stephen_33

It's well over an hour long!

TruthMuse
stephen_33 wrote:

It's well over an hour long!

Yes, it is. It is a lecture on chemical reactions and Abiogenesis, which covers the topic well.