Ethical-Cheating or Chess players Cheat

I really think Erik has that covered..Its still worth discussion as some players feel it is ethical to use computer assisted play...

Ice and fire are having that very discussion....

One poster believes "that search engines should be allowed and declared". That an icon  placed next to their names to Declare their intentions would be helpful.

This is not allowed on chess.com let me be clear !!

thats may be true msjean as cheaters will find a way around any defence if they want to win so much the rotters

I think it sad but true that some people cheat, But I know that I am better than that and sometime people complain about losing when the opponent has not cheated, I am not sure of the answer but feel like most internet based game you cannot eradicate it completely and I like to think most people are honest, so just let them get on with it and stop drawing attention to them because I believe that what they want..

Be Blessed

Faith

 Is it "inherently" unethical to use computers. They are just one additional tool we can use to determine the move we wish to make. I wouldn't obtain personal satisfaction from plugging my positions into a computer and just accepting the generated moves but I'll allow that it is possible that some competitors would find this a fun way to play chess. There will always be competitors who want to play without computer assistance. too

The only constant thing in the world is change. Adapt or die has always been the law. Those that want to play with technology should be allowed to play with like-minded players. They need to declare their status and an icon placed alongside their name. Using search engines in secret is illegal and not acceptable. It will not stop cheating but open up new dimensions and eradicate excuses from those caught defrauding others.

whats that saying they lie cheat and steal that is thier law

Using technology is not the issue, but using it in secret is. Declaration removes the problem for those that wish to dabble in it. Those that do not declare are obviously cheating and should be booted as it now stands.

* History is full of examples of innovators overstepping the mark into the illegal arena until it becomes acceptable.

Cheaters want the advantage. Use of technology is  not the goal .........WINNING IS. Seen as a "better",or a" good chess player" is what they seek, and having chess games of equals obviously is not whats envisioned------i.e.    they would not be cheating in the first place !

thanks for your comments....it takes me a while to get my thoughts together...

I didnt want to talk about cheating. THat is old and always an issue. I think that Erik and his helpers have done a great job trying to keep this site honest.

I was trying to talk about the way people cheat and peoples perceptions. What we thought was cheating before may not be cheating in the future...From the chess machine to books and distraction. Now with computer generated analysis.

People use open books and other tools all the time while playing  on line chess. Is this cheating? So using a computer might be the next step. that cheating?

In my mind it might lessen the strength of chess ratings on line. If I dont know you are using a computer ..thats another issue. What do you think...

It would obviously not be cheating if everybody was allowed to use engines, and everybody knew this. It would be a level playing field.

so if i declared im using a big chess engine would you play me

Of course some people cheat. This is human nature. What I think we are encountering is fall out from new technology. Computer technology is reatively new from an historical perspective, and we are in the first wave of people playing chess online.

I remember when the big debate was whether "computers" would ever beat the world champion. Today, chess engines are capable of crushing any human through the brute force of their computational stength. So what do you with this information?

Machines are obviously prohibited at OTB tournaments. They've been allowed in correspondence play in Europe for some time, and the USCF has relented fairly recently and allowed it in their correspondence play. This is largely an acknowledgement that it's impossible to police, but what does this computer enhancement of chess mean for the future?

"Cyberchess" among chess players of the highest skilli not just "my engine vs. yours." They will often reject a computer move for one of their own. How many novelties have been found with the assistance of computer technology, and what will these revelations mean for the way we play in the future?

Chess engines are allowed during adjounments of grandmaster games, and the very best players use them in their training and tournament prep. Computer technology has already had an impact on the game. Consider the effect it's had on finding the minimum number of moves required to win various end games.

This is relevant to chess.com in that move based chess is the same as crrespondence. The internet has brought many new players to chess, and in my opinion has raised the general level of play. Many of these new players are unaware of the correspondence convention of allowing the use of databases and think it to be cheating. This was brought about as the result of another technological revolution; the printing press!

There is little question that cheating takes place on this site. People have been removed from the site for this reason. Hell, i suspect that anyone who has ever beaten me must have cheated. But seriously, if someone wants to use an engine against me in a game that's 7 days per move, I should be able to grind out the tactics. Thereal problem is doing it with the shorter time frame of OTB.

I think there should be sites where chess engines are forbidden, but the practicality of the existence of such a site will depend on the resources required to police it and the reliability of the methods used to detect cheaters.

I think possible acceptance would be in forms of correspondence. I don't think it should ever be allowed OTB. However, if they got those engines down to the size of microchips and they could be implanted ...

I would.

I think you're exaggerating when you say MOST people.

"Chess engines are allowed during adjounments of grandmaster games"

I thought just the opposite was true - that one of the reasons adjournments are used so infrequently, if ever, anymore is because of the possibility that a player may use a chess engine - illgally.