Did chess.com get harder suddenly?

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Avatar of Martin_Stahl
Gambitiodic wrote:

Has it gotten suddenly easier to qualify for "brilliant" moves? I have played less, my rating has fallen since September and more or less stagnated on blitz for three years, but I am finding more "brilliant" moves in the game analytics. I never used to see these show up, but I come up with one in most games I've clicked analyze on the past few days.

 

Brilliants are sacrifices that are good or best and can be influenced by rating.

Avatar of dfgh123
BabyCow73 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
BabyCow73 wrote:
dfgh123 wrote:

There is a chart somewhere online which says over time you can lose 25% of your games against players rated 200 points below you.

That chart sounds interesting and accurate, I want to see it!

 

Here's an example:

https://www.318chess.com/elo.html

Thanks for the chart, but I'm a little surprised that there's no weird ones where their better but somehow its more likely for you to win, maybe because of your adrenaline.

 

My game seek is set to -400 and ∞ I was thinking maybe -25 and +200 would be better.

Avatar of keep1teasy

lol ok

Avatar of OlChessfan

I was wonderig the same thing , got off to a decent start ,won 4 games in a row when I started here last week, then ws up and down, but the last few days have been dreadful overall. Then again my mind has been very preoccupied with other things that have been stressing me out like crazy ! Perhaps some of the same things that might be stressing others out here as well !

Avatar of jarrs123

Look at percentile instead of rating.  The mean rating has dropped from 1100 to below 800 in about 3 years.   I am now about 93rd percentile but with a rating of only 1360.  Years ago my rating was about 1450 but my percentile was below 90th.  I think this is due to new players coming in at lower starting ratings.  The system used to start at everyone at 1200, which was considered average back then.  The distribution has been skewed to the left, 

Avatar of simple-mind

I recently dropped 250 points in a month, and then had to work my way back.  In my case, I had been doing a lot of the tactics trainer puzzles.  Good training for offense, but I realized (meaning I got schooled) about also playing defensively.  Once I started paying attention to defense, I stopped losing as many games.  That is just what happened to me - YMMV.

Avatar of whiteknight1968

Players in the 1200-1500 range are definitely getting harder to beat, Evidence being that I just beat an 1800 bot quite quickly and comfortably, I did not used to be able to do this, so I have gotten better, but rated about the same.

The bot should not be rated 1800 but I guess thats another question.

Avatar of DefenderPug2
whiteknight1968 wrote:

Players in the 1200-1500 range are definitely getting harder to beat, Evidence being that I just beat an 1800 bot quite quickly and comfortably, I did not used to be able to do this, so I have gotten better, but rated about the same.

The bot should not be rated 1800 but I guess thats another question.

Making the bots move in proportion to what their rating is, is kind of hard.

The lower ratings are easier. Makes weak moves, but doesn’t just move randomly if you blunder your pieces.

 

more average ratings are easy too. Plays stronger moves, punishes you for your mistakes, but doesn’t have a very high depth, and makes moves that are more progressive rather than being a static threat level to the player.

once you get into higher bot ratings though, it gets harder. They play a lot smarter, but it’s difficult to make sure that they aren’t smarter than what other players at that rating play. Since it varies and changes frequently, the bot has to purposely make moves that hurt itself, IF the player can see those planted mistakes.

Avatar of DefenderPug2

My idea is that, all of the bots are adaptive, like Jimmy.

But the ones that have ratings are still adaptive, but stay in its relative rating area. So it can have a more realistic style of playing.

Avatar of CausalityD

Interesting find!! coffee fast anyone!

Avatar of BabyCow73
DefenderPug2 wrote:

My idea is that, all of the bots are adaptive, like Jimmy.

But the ones that have ratings are still adaptive, but stay in its relative rating area. So it can have a more realistic style of playing.

Yeah I've noticed that too. When I first started chess I started with playing the Martin bot, and I absolutely destroyed him because he never threatened my pieces and never protected his pieces. Just recently I couldn't find an opponent so I decided to go with a bots speedrun, starting with martin. I played much better that game, but so did martin. He still blundered a few times and only took like two of my pawns, but it was much better than his previous performance. There us something I noticed though both times I played him: 

He doesn't take hanging pieces unless in check, meaning that if you hang your queen right in front of his pawn, he won't take it, most of the time, but if its also check, he MIGHT take it.

Avatar of a5page

You should see the state of chess.com in 2015😵

There were FMs barely past 1900😱

Avatar of DefenderPug2
BabyCow73 wrote:
DefenderPug2 wrote:

My idea is that, all of the bots are adaptive, like Jimmy.

But the ones that have ratings are still adaptive, but stay in its relative rating area. So it can have a more realistic style of playing.

Yeah I've noticed that too. When I first started chess I started with playing the Martin bot, and I absolutely destroyed him because he never threatened my pieces and never protected his pieces. Just recently I couldn't find an opponent so I decided to go with a bots speedrun, starting with martin. I played much better that game, but so did martin. He still blundered a few times and only took like two of my pawns, but it was much better than his previous performance. There us something I noticed though both times I played him: 

He doesn't take hanging pieces unless in check, meaning that if you hang your queen right in front of his pawn, he won't take it, most of the time, but if its also check, he MIGHT take it.

By “my idea” I meant as in a suggestion they can add. The bots currently don’t have that (at least I don’t think they do).

Avatar of WIKIPAWN

jarrs123  WROTE

''Look at percentile instead of rating.  The mean rating has dropped from 1100 to below 800 in about 3 years.   I am now about 93rd percentile but with a rating of only 1360.  Years ago my rating was about 1450 but my percentile was below 90th.  I think this is due to new players coming in at lower starting ratings.  The system used to start at everyone at 1200, which was considered average back then.  The distribution has been skewed to the left, ''

I have been wondering about this for a while, and I am surprised that chess.com do not make a serious comment about this, as opposed to their key workers usual ironic and allegedly witty evasions

 

Avatar of newbie4711

Why not just let the BOTs play some 3/0 blitz tournaments? Then we will know their "real" rating.

Avatar of NulDVert

I also feel as though the search algorithm is choosing opponents differently. I'm a beginner, but I went straight from a 9 game winning streak to being unable to beat anyone I'm pitted against. Started a couple of weeks ago. 🤷‍♂️

Avatar of KlekleLegacy
KeSetoKaiba a écrit :
Martin_Stahl wrote:

...Everyone goes through fluctuations in play quality and that is a more likely explanation.

Variance is a very real thing that is inherently a part of the nature of the rating system. Human player fluctuations are the normal - if there were not unexpected ups and downs, then that alone is suspicion of someone using a chess engine. Everyone has ups and downs or they are not challenging themselves. 

In my experience, it usually takes several "ups" into a rating and "downs" out of it again before one stays there for a while. For example, let us say a hypothetical player is trying to maintain 1500 blitz level. They might take a long time to reach 1500, when they do, they may stay there for a week, crash to 1400. Take a month to build up to 1475, then drop to 1450 - then climb to 1520 and then drop out of 1500 range again etc. This process is somewhat mocking, but one gets a bit used to it. After a few of these fluctuations, you will eventually stay more reliably above 1500 (or whatever other rating is in question).

Just keep learning and keep working on your chess, then the rating will eventually go up slowly over the long-term if you are doing things correctly

That's my rapid ELO history here. Player fluctuation is real. I have long 1500 plateaux, but every once in a while I had a little crash into the mid-1400s. One noteworthy exemple in my case is when I stopped playing chess in 1 month, was a little bit rusty and lost 100 ELO points in a short amount of time, «reseting» into the 1450s.

 

In my personal case, it is cyclic, and the fluctuation matches my health and my brain focus. But I never go lower than the 1400s. I don't get worse : I notice I have a floor I can't cross even when I am at my worst, and I always get back into my natural 1500 habitat where I stay most of the time.

 

I also know that I will have a fluctuation one day (this year? next year?) or another that will get me in the low 1600s, as long as I work to improve my chess. Because 1500s and 1600s have ELO fluctuations like me and their human strengths vary everyday, and because I have already reached the 1550-1570 levels many times before.

Avatar of KlekleLegacy
NulDVert a écrit :

I also feel as though the search algorithm is choosing opponents differently. I'm a beginner, but I went straight from a 9 game winning streak to being unable to beat anyone I'm pitted against. Started a couple of weeks ago. 🤷‍♂️

As humans, we sometimes have an inconscious personal bias to compare ourselves with others as if we we not changing. But we need to understand that we get through fluctuations periodically, like other people we compare ourselves to.

 

Chess players also change slightly their playing behaviour as they play. You may have developped over time some habits that make your games harder for you.

Avatar of Woollensock2
Bumping has certainly become easier ! ✌️😎
Avatar of Martin_Stahl
newbie4711 wrote:

Why not just let the BOTs play some 3/0 blitz tournaments? Then we will know their "real" rating.

 

The only way that would really work very well is if they played a sufficient number of games against members with established ratings and people didn't know they were bots.