A Bevy of BCE Stage 1 Eastern & Western style Blitz sets from Ifekali and Noj.

Ha! If you knew what a cook my wife was,you'd understand.-

In all honesty(but it's fun to kid around in these crazy viral times) I can get what I want.

You mean you never kept a separate "Executive Account"?

Madness!

You now must learn to deal in cash my friend...

One thing I will say - that deciding that one cannot justify a particular expense is OK.

I would LOVE an antique Ivory Jaques set. Just not gonna happen.  Period. Even the one's I've seen for sale - I simply cannot justify the cost. And in most cases, even afford them.

Some things are just out of my price bracket.

But I would never cast shade on those who have the good fortune in life to be able to afford one.

And my inability to own one certainly doesn't stop me from appreciating the pictures posted from those that are able to.

Yes, this is not some sort of Chess set collecting competition.  For instance I really like those Chavet sets of Ronbo.  And there really is no way for me to buy one.  Instead I enjoy looking at his posted pictures.

I also enjoy looking at a good number of these a Jaques sets, that I would never be able to justify buying.

In my wife's defense and mine as well....For 4 decades I was a fanatical high end audiophile.My pals wrote for the commonly seen audio magazines.....The monies I spent on that hobby made anything chess related seem like pennies.

I have since sold off all that equip and am happily streaming with quite a nice,but far less expensive set up(damn good though and a real surprise to this former audio snob).

Hence,my decision to not go too overboard these days.....but......Now that I have seen the Staunton Castle Old Vienna Coffee House set,I am salivating again....and....it ain't for her cooking.-

My thoughts exactly Wes350. Thanks for pointing this out. 

Personally their BCE Stage 1 is way over priced. The set design doesn't justify a 500 Euro price tag in my book. It is a design that a 1st year wood turner can do with ease. Don't get me wrong I love the simple design just not the price tag that goes with it.

I focus on the $ because I don't need a high dollar to play the game with. I play the game the same whether it is a cheap club set or a 500 Euro set. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy playing on a nice set but a nice set doesn't pay the bills in my house. If you want to blow your money on fine sets. That's your business but they are cheaper options that may not be the best but it gets the job done. Glock for instance in the gun world. It's not a Wilson Combat 1911 but it is reliable and get's the job done. Just don't be a chess set snob is all I am saying.

Not at all. I said if you want to blow your money on fine sets. That is your business. I personally don't have a problem with it. As myself I the big word is I, can't justify spending loads of money on chess pieces. I will always look at chess sets 1st and foremost with money. If it's not within my budget. I simply don't buy it. Where I get upset is when others try to promote higher $ sets onto others when there are cheaper options of the same similar set. Give them both options and let them make up their own minds. Saying that the higher cost one is the one to get is misguided advice. Give both options that are similar and leave it at that.  

No that isn't what I am doing. I offer the cheap sets when others offer the more expensive ones. It's just when chess set snobs chime in and give a sales pitch about the cheaper ones aren't worth getting and you should be looking at getting the more expensive option in a sort of way. This is the kind of BS I am talking about. I don't push cheap sets onto others. I am offering. There is a difference.

No, you do push the lower priced sets on people.  And you do practice reverse snobbery.

You have attacked and insulted me for my describing Chess sets.

You have also lied, a number of times, about me and what I said.

I have never advertised for any company.  I have shown pictures, compared specifications and described my choices and why I made them.

You are one in a group of four posters on here that were very bad.  Two of them, we no longer hear from.  The other only now posts occasionally and not about price and quality.

You, KnightsForkCafe, are the only bad poster staying around and posting your lies.

Actually, I like sound67 and his postings a lot.  He posts pictures of his stuff with good reviews.  He is also honest in these postings.

Just because he does not want to buy Noj sets, because of their high prices, so what?  It’s not that he is cheap.  He has spent quite a bit on Chess stuff in a relatively short amount of time.  So he sees Noj as not being a good value.  In my book, that is his choice in life.  

Now, the other four miscreants, with only this KnightsForkCafe hanging around, were cheap in they would not buy many sets at all.  They never put pictures or objective reviews up.  And they all were, and currently are very insulting to those that choose to buy the higher quality sets, including but not limited to Noj.

sound67 is a good poster, member and all.

I like Sound 67 as well,but he has been "a bit guilty" of being a little too critical of Noj,especially when some well respected collectors have praised that company!  Yet, they have also admitted to owning (and liking) sets from C.B. and other lower priced vendors.

It's not a bad thing to give a little acceptance to those who own both and have made their judgement upon seeing and comparing both.

In all fairness sound67 has said, even a few posts up, that he does not see the value for the price of Noj sets.  But he has not said anything bad about the people buying them.  Sure, it might look like a fine line, but he has been pretty good about it.

And yes, he has taken offense when some people have written things that he read as a slam on these lower priced sets which coincidentally all come from India.  
But when he came on here and started buying sets, he always found the lowest price for the design he was looking for.  And coincidentally CB quality went up from what it had been at about this time.  So the sets he got from CB were good ones.  And just before he started buying and coming here, that is when a good number of places like RCM and Staunton Castle began selling direct, online. 

As I have said before and most people agree Noj is very different from all the places that sell Chess sets.  They are not typical Chess set manufacturers or sellers at all.  They do only make a limited number of sets.  It is very common to have to wait for them to have the set design you want come up in their production cycle.  They usually only make less than 10 sets at a time.  And Chess sets is not their main woodworking or carving business.  They make wood fountain pens for the European market as well as some furniture things.

So yes, Noj is expensive.  And most of the Knights they make are not as intricate as a lot of Knights made by other carvers, which pretty much are all in India.  So when a person sees the 600 Euro price on a Noj set and then compares it with a 400 or so Euro set from manufactured set from India, the set from India looks to be the better value.  Note that I said, looks.

Sets from Staunton Castle, Chess Bazaar, Royal Chess Mall, The House of Staunton, Official Staunton, and a host of others all are similar enough in design to easily compare to each other.  Even their Dubrovnik sets are able to be compared to each other.  But Noj is so different in design, make and finish that it is not easy to make an accurate comparison with the other sets.

This is where the looks come into play.  And this is where the internet fails us all.  The pictures on the internet do not show all that there is about a Chess set.  So pictures of different Chess sets might look very similar where the actual sets are quite different.  

I experienced a recent example which I posted about with pictures.  This was with the Official FIDE World Championship set that I bought from Chess Baron, and a reproduction of this set that I bought from Chess Bazaar.  Pieces from the two sets looked quite similar when pictured next to each other.  Yes, there are differences but you would think not enough to warrant the extra $180 for the official one.  The weights of the pieces were also the same in both sets.

But when the pieces are on a Chess board and you pick up and handle them for play, it is a very noticeable difference.  And I am not the only person to notice this.  There have been at least a couple of posters on this forum over the last year or so saying they did not like the CB set at all.  Whereas there are a number of people saying that the official is surprisingly a much nicer set in real life than in the pictures.  And CB quit selling this set for quite a time now.

The Noj sets are unique in that when you buy one it is a completely different experience from all the others.  The proof is what you read from every person that owns one, without exception.  Everyone that owns a Noj set says how nice the set is.  Yes they say it in different ways but everyone loves their Noj set.  And they say the set is worth the extra money spent.  Just in the last week there is a guy on this forum that bought a Noj Minceta Dubrovnik and bought a House of Staunton Dubrovnik set.  He said that there is no doubt the Noj set is a lot better than the HoS version and definitely worth the high price.

now, if someone does not want to buy a Noj set, that’s alright.  No one is making or should try to make them buy one.   sound67 is alright.

The other bums like KnightsForkCafe are a different story though.

And this is where you and KnightsForkCafe have erred in your core assumptions.

Any $200 or less chess set will "get the job done". In fact I have cheap plastic sets that I play with that would survive in playable condition buried in a landfill long after my NOJ has rotted away...

When you start breaking the $500 or so dollar barrier you are no longer spending based on "value for money".

You are chasing perfection.

And how much refinement you are willing/able to pay for when chasing this unobtainable goal is directly proportional to your income, divided by your ability to eat, factored into a ratio adjusted by your wife's level of financial scrutiny...

Chasing perfection is an illusion and a waste of my time and money. Mankind is not perfect so whatever man makes will have flaws. I just don't see any value in paying 500 Euros on a BCE set that is so simple in design that a beginning 1st year wood turner could produce in his or her garage. That's my beef with NOJ's price point. If my house burns down or hit by a tornado. There goes my high dollar set out the window or burnt beyond repair. Yes insurance might cover damages but we all know how long it will take to get paid. At the end of the day. If you enjoy spending your money on high dollar set. More power to you. I just don't see the value in chasing perfection as you say. Just to one day end up losing what I value. To much risk for me and I do have a budget and other priorities in my life. I will always be a person that looks at a set with money as the main reason of getting or passing on a set.  

Here is an elegant $299 set that has far greater detail and harder for a 1st year wood turner to make.

https://www.thechessempire.com/bridle-staunton-chess-pieces-4-25-king.html?options=cart

Me personally NOJ is more of a con artist than a real chess set maker. I don't see their craftsmanship worth the cost they are wanting people to pay. Sorry but I am calling a spade a spade. 

You should have just lead with that in one of the previous NOJ related threads.

Now that you finally worked up the courage to share your actual opinion, there is no reason for you to click on any more threads that discuss NOJ chess sets.

You need not exert yourself to actually post your opinion.

We all know what you will say.

If you want to be swindled out of your money into the pockets of those who are willing to take your money. Then go right ahead. A slightly better finish isn't worth 2 to 3 times the cost. Sorry but if you aren't seeing it then I can't help you. Good day sir.

Perhaps we should just sticky an ad for a $10 plastic set/roll-up vinyl board and close the forum down? I'm not sure why you participate in a chess equipment forum when you believe anything beyond the absolute basics is a waste of money; this would be like going into a car enthusiast forum and berating its members for buying BMW or Mercedes when "a 20 year old rusty clunker would do the same thing and get the job done". 

I'm not going to get into this with you but calling Noj "a con artist" is a pretty ridiculous/inflammatory comment; you come off quite petty/jealous with comments like "an expensive set doesn't pay the bills in my house" (lol?) or "don't be a chess snob". The people in this forum are here to share and enjoy nice chess sets; I don't see why you care what anyone spends on their equipment. No one on this forum has ever said one must buy top-of-the-line equipment to enjoy the game.

I don't think you understand the difference in labor/material cost between Europe and India. Here is some quick math for you:

> Noj has stated they put approximately 28-30 hours of labor into each set

> 500 EUR/28-30 hours = approximately 16.50 EUR an hour, which is $18.50 USD an hour

> Factor in materials, maintenance, overhead, etc., and that hourly rate comes down

> Even $18.50/hour (which excludes all of the costs I listed above) does not seem unreasonable

Regarding your use of the word "swindle"...if only you knew who you were slandering. I had a situation with one of my orders where I straight-up offered Noj extra money no strings attached and they refused to accept it; you have no idea who you're bad-mouthing.

LOLZ!

Now you remove all doubt.