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Adding weight to pieces

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mldavis617

My only purpose here was to warn of the potential toxicity of handling lead.  Since the MSDS data sheets are wrong, since lead phobia is overtaking common sense, and since there is absolutely no danger in handling lead, you need to take your argument to the scientific community, not spam a chess thread with denial.  All I'm asking is for people to use it at their own risk after reading the legitimate literature.  You have the rights to your own opinion based on your own, unscientific history.  End of discussion.

StrategicPlay

If the piece is hollow with an open base, just stuff in some clay. It works. Then cover the base with stiff paper, or just simple paper, if the clay gets messy. 

MaximRecoil
mldavis617 wrote:

My only purpose here was to warn of the potential toxicity of handling lead.  Since the MSDS data sheets are wrong, since lead phobia is overtaking common sense, and since there is absolutely no danger in handling lead, you need to take your argument to the scientific community, not spam a chess thread with denial.  All I'm asking is for people to use it at their own risk after reading the legitimate literature.  You have the rights to your own opinion based on your own, unscientific history.  End of discussion.

Given your complete lack of arguments here (your straw men and various other fallacies don't count), your tacit concession of every point of contention is noted. Your third resignation (bolded), is also noted.

konhidras

Does it even occured to anyone in this thread that a player who picked his nose before a game without washing hands started to play a game thereby touching the pieces. And the next players using the pieces afterwards are unware of what the previous player did to pieces ( i even see players subconciously bite their fingers during a game as a mannerism). Now the question is, which one is toxic?  The "bogey" pieces or the "lead" ones?

Bronco

I bet they both taste icky

StrategicPlay
konhidras wrote:

Does it even occured to anyone in this thread that a player who picked his nose before a game without washing hands started to play a game thereby touching the pieces. And the next players using the pieces afterwards are unware of what the previous player did to pieces ( i even see players subconciously bite their fingers during a game as a mannerism). Now the question is, which one is toxic?  The "bogey" pieces or the "lead" ones?

I bet the other guy won't care. 

TomOhio
mldavis617 wrote:

As a chemist, I would strongly recommend that you not heat, mold or use lead.  It is a heavy metal and very toxic.  Steel slugs can be found at hardware stores and are what manufacturers today use.  Lead is dangerous, far more so that we thought a decade ago, and is being studied for its potential link to dementia and Alzheimer's diseases.

... when exposed in infancy, and occupational exposures.  NOTE TO ALL WHO ARE CONSIDERING USING LEAD:  I only do this in my driveway, NOT in the house, to ensure good ventilation.  I always put down a sheet of plywood under my work area and top that with a disposable tarp, which I throw away if I spill... which I don't.  I always wear protective hand and arm gear.  I make sure I clean up thoroughly after I'm done, and NO ONE touches my burner or ladle but me.  There are never any kids around when I'm doing this... the wife is in the house but no one else is around.  I only do this for about two hours twice a year, and I keep the plugs I make in a sealed container that is locked... as are the lead chunks I bought at my local supply.  Finally... be aware of the melting point of lead.  It's almost impossible to boil it on a home unit in volumes large enough to do what we're talking about here... unless you put a near-empty ladle back on your burner.  The fumes of boiling lead can be extremely bad for you... so be aware.  Been doing this on and off for 40 years.

Lead can be handled safely... it's not nuclear waste... but you have to use some common sense.

scheichxodox

I bought the chess pieces D0138 from Chessbazaar and had one wobbling pawn. I removed the felt and took out the weight. I have made some pictures, which you can see in this gallery. Here is a sneak preview:

As I feared, the piece of iron (reacts to a magnet) already started rusting. I don't know what to do now. Since I really like the set, I would like to keep it. I'm even tempted to exchange the iron with lead. I've measured the remaining space with water and was able to fill in a little bit over 3ml. The wood of the pawn weighs 12g and the iron weighs 21g. Considering the density of iron, this fits. If I would melt lead into the hole, I might go up to 34g for the weight alone. Unfortunately I would only be able to get that much lead inside, if I really melt it. If I only take lead shot, it's even possible that I don't gain any weight. Can I pour the hot lead straight into the wood? Doesn't it get burned?

netzach

chasm1995
scheichxodox wrote:

I bought the chess pieces D0138 from Chessbazaar and had one wobbling pawn. I removed the felt and took out the weight. I have made some pictures, which you can see in this gallery. Here is a sneak preview:

As I feared, the piece of iron (reacts to a magnet) already started rusting. I don't know what to do now. Since I really like the set, I would like to keep it. I'm even tempted to exchange the iron with lead. I've measured the remaining space with water and was able to fill in a little bit over 3ml. The wood of the pawn weighs 12g and the iron weighs 21g. Considering the density of iron, this fits. If I would melt lead into the hole, I might go up to 34g for the weight alone. Unfortunately I would only be able to get that much lead inside, if I really melt it. If I only take lead shot, it's even possible that I don't gain any weight. Can I pour the hot lead straight into the wood? Doesn't it get burned?

It will burn the wood, but only the surface.  The integrity of hte wood itself will remain in tact.  Just don't make the lead much hotter than its melting point.

Benzodiazepine

It won't burn the wood. However, lead is highly toxic.

What about plasticine or chewing gum?!

Benzodiazepine

You can screw in a screw, too!

Ultramontane

I drilled holes in the base of a cheap and nasty set with a 10mm forstner bit. I cut some lead on the bandsaw to roughly 10mm x 10mm strip then cut it to length and epoxied it in the holes. To cover the holes I cut some cork mat I found lying in the workshop. I didn't realise at the time but it was gasket material and was impregnated with some sort of rubber - when I cut out the discs on the laser cutter the smoke was horrendous!

The lead transferred onto my fingers was absorbed into my system taking a few months off my life - it got all over the white pieces and has proved impossible to remove fully. The pieces are way to heavy and stink of burnt rubber........ shall I go on?

loubalch

I recently weighted and refelted the 5.75" set pictured below. I first drilled a 1" deep hole using a 3/4" bit, then changed over to a 1/2" bit and drilled an additional 1/2" -3/4", depending on the piece. I then filled the holes by stacking 1/2" and 3/4" steel washers. Using a large screw to fill the center gap, I filled the voids with carpenter's glue. As the glue recedes a bit when it dries, I filled the remaining gap with epoxy. Once cured, I sanded flush and refelted. I was very pleased with the results. So too was the young man who purchased the set last month.

mldavis617

I had a lengthy argument earlier in the thread about the toxicity of lead (I'm a retired chemist) from a player who was likely a firearms reloader who had cast his own bullets for years and was in denial about the dangers.  I wouldn't touch lead bare handed, as it oxidizes to a white powder and comes off the surface quite readily onto your hands, and it's both elemental lead and the oxidized powder that is also an issue.  Of course this person knows more about lead than the MSDS, so I'm sure he's off to re-write them for the scientific community.

I recently had to replace some weights in my old Drueke set and used metal coins of the appropriate diameter or old punch-out slugs from electrical switch boxes.  The real problem with wood sets as displayed abvoe is that the bases are small and there is minimal space hollowed out inside which limits the amount of weight installed.  It's a style balance against practical stability.

If you must use lead, I'd work with gloves on, pound lead shot to flatten it to shape and cut it to fit.  Lead oxide is as toxic as elemental lead, which is why it has been removed from paint formulas, ceramics and banned as tetraethyl lead in motor fuels.

loubalch

I agree. Better safe than sorry. If I was working with lead I would take all necessary precautions -- gloves, etc.

But for adding weight in small spaces lead is hard to beat. Here are some other alternatives and their densities compared to lead: stainless steel (70%), brass (77%), nickel (78%), copper (79%). The impractical solutions include silver (92%), gold (170%), ruthenium (109%), uranium (168%), and osmium (200%).

Staunton designs with larger bases, like the Dubrovniks, make it easier to add weight using non-lead substitutes. The problem with using these substitutes with smaller base designs is that you have to drill a 40% larger hole to accommodate iron or steel, which leaves the pieces with thinner walls that are more prone to damage and cracking.

scheichxodox

Thanks for all your answers. Right now I think I'm gonna pass on exchanging my iron weights with lead. If I melt the lead and pour it right into the pieces, they might crack. There's also no more room left, so that the wood cannot expand and is, again, prone to cracking. If I would like to make a smaller piece, so that the wood has some space to expand, I will have to make a perfect mould.

A different solution might be lead shot. But if I take lead shot with a homogenous diameter, I won't reach a higher bulk density than around 70%. It will be propably rather between 50% and 60%, depending on how the lead shot restructures itself. Here is some more information on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_packing
The only way to increase the density would be to get lead shot with different diameter. Then I might reach a density of 90% of that of lead. But first this would not come cheap, if I have to order different lead shot sizes. And second I don't know, if the problem with cracking the pieces would be off the table. I might build a barrier between the wood and the lead with glue or silicone but I don't know if the lead shot might suppress it.

So all in all, currently I think it's not worth the trouble to get this little more weight.

chasm1995
scheichxodox wrote:

Thanks for all your answers. Right now I think I'm gonna pass on exchanging my iron weights with lead. If I melt the lead and pour it right into the pieces, they might crack. There's also no more room left, so that the wood cannot expand and is, again, prone to cracking. If I would like to make a smaller piece, so that the wood has some space to expand, I will have to make a perfect mould.

A different solution might be lead shot. But if I take lead shot with a homogenous diameter, I won't reach a higher bulk density than around 70%. It will be propably rather between 50% and 60%, depending on how the lead shot restructures itself. Here is some more information on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_packing
The only way to increase the density would be to get lead shot with different diameter. Then I might reach a density of 90% of that of lead. But first this would not come cheap, if I have to order different lead shot sizes. And second I don't know, if the problem with cracking the pieces would be off the table. I might build a barrier between the wood and the lead with glue or silicone but I don't know if the lead shot might suppress it.

So all in all, currently I think it's not worth the trouble to get this little more weight.

From airst-hand experience in my employer's cabinet shop, we pour lead into some of the wood whenever we need to weigh something down, and nothing has split or burned, even years after the cabinets have been installed.  You just need to make sure that the wood has been well-sealed that way the expansion and contraction are kept to a minimum.

andy277

If you look on Alan Dewey's site, he has a video of him pouring molten lead into the base of a Jaques chess piece. Of course, those pieces have a thread, so it makes sense to pour the lead in and let it solidify around the thread but he wouldn't do it if it were going to damage the piece.

scheichxodox

You're absolutely right. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfg0uQbvld4 Incredible. Now exchanging the weights is back on the agenda. Oh boy, what should I do...