I wonder if you can get the same kind of engine just programmed for modern times. Then buy a DGT board.
You can get emulators to run on your PC - not quite the same as you suggest but may be of interest. See:
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-wonderful-world-of-chess-machine-emulators
Sir @chessmaster_diamond thank you for precise info, as always. Is it true that there are two versions of "Challengers" same on the outside but with different processor strengths 10 and 27 mHz? Regarding "Milano", our local seller selling it for 18,000 RSD and Saitek "Mephisto Chess Challenger" (27 Mhz) version for 12,000 RSD. He states that 27 Mhz version "Challenger" is for 100 elo stronger in blitz than 10 Mhz version...
EDIT: He is selling "Milano PRO" version of 24 Mhz instead of 20 Mhz (before the model was sold to "Pewatronics", he states, when the model was weakened to 20 Mhz)
Edit 2: In the default mode, without dumbing down program in settings via "secret menu" (not mentioned in manual), I have hard time playing against (Saitek) "Chess Challenger" on "Fun 6" level, tacticaly extremely sharp and I just once peaked here ≈1250 rapid on chess.com. What to do?
All these are "overclocked" machines, versions that weren't sold by the manufacturers but manipulated after the sale. There are indeed overclocked versions of many old Saitek/Mephisto and other machines around, sometimes those appear on the used market. Could make a significant difference in blitz, not so much on tournament levels, where a difference between 10 and 27 MhZ maybe makes a difference of 1/3 half move. I never had such a machine myself, being content with what the manufacturers provided.
I see, that's why nowhere is mentioned "factory version of 27Mhz"...
If you buy a regular old Saitek/Mephisto, there are still experts aound that can increase the CPU speed today. There is a dedicated, active community of collectors of old chess computers today, mostly in my country.
It is no secret that people of the UK and Germany are technically inclined. In the era of the common, home computers there was demo and programmers scene. Next, scientists, auto industry. It seems that other nations "work to live". If we would wait for some nations to make a solid dedicated machine we would not receive even Bulgarian, eastern-europe version of the product.
I was very suprised when saw "Fidelity" version of the "Mephisto-Mini" (little peg-in), once, on ads.
In my home city once in early '80-ies was just one man who become instantly "cool" who upon returning from the US bring the actual "Challenger", in the case. I asked my comrade as a kid to open the case and turn on but on the spot, it seemed very complicated to me (video games were still my main point of interest), that I quickly forgot about that...
Then, somewhere in middle '80-ies, I would frequently see handheld chess computer versions, in the bookstores but I was 5-6-7 years old and wouldn't ask anybody to buy me one or I could think it would be a bad manner from me...
Today I made my wishes true and all the wishes, one by one, until completion.
It is no secret that people of the UK and Germany are technically inclined. In the era of the common, home computers there was demo and programmers scene. Next, scientists, auto industry. It seems that other nations "work to live". If we would wait for some nations to make a solid dedicated machine we would not receive even Bulgarian, eastern-europe version of the product.
I was very suprised when saw "Fidelity" version of the "Mephisto-Mini" (little peg-in), once, on ads.
In my home city once in early '80-ies was just one man who become instantly "cool" who upon returning from the US bring the actual "Challenger", in the case. I asked my comrade as a kid to open the case and turn on but on the spot, it seemed very complicated to me (video games were still my main point of interest), that I quickly forgot about that...
Then, somewhere in middle '80-ies, I would frequently see handheld chess computer versions, in the bookstores but I was 5-6-7 years old and wouldn't ask anybody to buy me one or I could think it would be a bad manner from me...
Today I made my wishes true and all the wishes, one by one, until completion.
I was amazed that chess computer enthusiasts were willing to purchase ROM chips and were capable of replacing the ones inside their chess computers back in the 80s. That was the cheapest way to upgrade the engines before Mephisto introduced their line of modules. The equivalent to replacing mini solid state drives in modern laptops.
@chessroboto I was even more amazed conceiving that led-indicating move chess computers even ever existed par with sensory felt fields. Not even to mention those with even! separate modules for them...
On another place found out that there were two main reasons for their popularity:
1) Computers of the before-386 era could not achieve engine speed of dedicates (bloated with another functionalities, perhaps)
2) Much, much, later, In the regard of the latest produced dedicates, it was cheaper solution than fully-blown laptop, while laptops were still expensive...
Played a dozen games against the Mephisto Montreux emulation, absolutely wonderful. I tuned it easily to my level - c. 1450 - and it doesn't play any whacky Stockfish moves which I have no hope of understanding far less ever playing, very 'normal' chess. Excellent for training games. Certainly be interested if the real physical version turns up in the UK, interesting aspect to these emulations is the 'try before, you buy' effect. Perhaps I am too old school, but really love having a true 3-D board to play with, rather than the flat-screen type - just feels that your playing real chess.
Tried to get others in real-life interested in old chess computers but definitely swimming against the tide. Shame really as for the vast majority of players they can get far more out of them than on-line, imo. I suspect the reason for this is that the old chess computers were targeted against human play/customers unlike modern engines - bit like the differences between medieval and modern art.
@DesperateKingWalk, thank you for the change of pace, information, and insightful contribution. This is the kind of content we come to enjoy!
By default the CB-Emu emulations use the Arena GUI, so you aren't limited to boards made by DGT. You can use Certabo, Chessnut, DGT (including Pegasus), Millennium, Novag (UCB, Citrine), Saitek (OSA boards), Square Off (Pro) and Tabutronic.
CB-Emu: https://fhub.jimdofree.com/
My drivers: https://goneill.co.nz/chess.php#eboard
If you buy a regular old Saitek/Mephisto, there are still experts aound that can increase the CPU speed today. There is a dedicated, active community of collectors of old chess computers today, mostly in my country.
I think I need their help! I've just bought a Mephisto and would like to get it repaired. Or maybe sold.
Is there a forum you would recommend? I'm on Facebook if that helps.
Here's some pics of the Mephisto computer I recently acquired. It doesn't appear to say on it what it is, buy googling shows that it's a Mephisto ESB 6000 from 1981 or 82.
It's huge - 50 x 50 x 9 cm
Don't know why these pics always come out sideways. Maybe I need to hold my phone sideways when I take them.
Anyway, anyone got any advice about restoring these?
This thing is so big that I would imagine it would be possible to add a strong computer inside and hook it up to the auto sensory board. I also thought I could use another set of pieces - the pieces that come with it - although original - are garbage and too big for the board. Or does the originality need to be preserved?
This thing is so big that I would imagine it would be possible to add a strong computer inside and hook it up to the auto sensory board. I also thought I could use another set of pieces - the pieces that come with it - although original - are garbage and too big for the board. Or does the originality need to be preserved?
I've long learned here in the forums that in Europe, it is more aesthetically pleasing for the pieces to fill the squares of the board. Since Mephisto was designed from Europe, that's how they were sold. Even the aftermarket deluxe pieces for the 2006 Novag Citrine followed the same standard.
Here's some pics of the Mephisto computer I recently acquired. It doesn't appear to say on it what it is, buy googling shows that it's a Mephisto ESB 6000 from 1981 or 82.
It's huge - 50 x 50 x 9 cm
This was the first Mephisto that came with a wooden autosensory board attached. The downside was that it's not upgradable. When they introduced the "Mephisto Exclusive" boards, they corrected that, the modules could be exchanged. And then again, with their later, stronger modules you'd need a new Exclusive board yet again which delivered more power.
List of my ROMS
Wow. Most impressive.
Is there an online resource that explains how to get these “skins” for use with UCI and DGT?
I've long learned here in the forums that in Europe, it is more aesthetically pleasing for the pieces to fill the squares of the board.
The pieces for my computer are too big for the board in my opinion - and since it would be me that was using it, my opinion is what counts!
But the pieces in the picture you posted in #197 - they are much nicer. They look to be inspired by the Fischer-Spassky 1972 set.
List of my ROMS
Wow. Most impressive.
Is there an online resource that explains how to get these “skins” for use with UCI and DGT?
Does this help:
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-wonderful-world-of-chess-machine-emulators
I wonder if you can get the same kind of engine just programmed for modern times. Then buy a DGT board.