chess book with annotated games, for a 1500 rated plaer

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Ziryab
RCMorea wrote:
killercrab wrote:

@RCMorea,

I never said Chernev's book was perfect.  Every book has its flaws, but Chernev's book instills logical reasoning and planning into a beginning/intermediate chess player (including 1500).  

I just do not want to spend time sorting out which parts of Stripes' analysis is right and which is flawed.  I would rather read GM John Nunn's criticism.

do you know where John Nunn said what he said? 

I think he said most of it in the forward of "Grandmaster Chess Move by Move."

I do agree it's a good book for a beginner, most of it is right, and no book is perfect...it's just that I personally remember as a kid saying to myself "but I don't see what's wrong with this move" and even restraining myself from moving pawns in front of the castled king, when it actually would have been right to do so, and now many years later with the benefit of an engine, I realize there actually was nothing wrong with some of those moves.  So maybe it's a little personal to me.  But if you go in knowing that he's harping on certain points to get your attention, and mostly that's a good thing as long as you don't overdo it, you should be fine.

I think that after Chernev's logical chess, an aspiring player could do worse than reading McDonald's Chess: The Art of Logical Thinking, and after that Nunn's Grandmaster Chess: Move by Move. It is worth noting that Chernev is the author of the genre. McDonald and Nunn follow the path that he forged.

ipcress12
BigKingBud wrote:

But , anyways, I was reading Silman on this topic, and he was saying to just "run through the games quickly, in REAMS, like dozens of games a day if not even hundreds, doing it as fast as you can".  He claimed that after doing this for a while day in, and day out, it would REALLY open your mind up to chess(or however you wanna put it).
I thought it seemed a bit pointless(without analyzing).  Has anyone else studied master games in the manner I claim Silman recommened? 

I've run into that idea elsewhere. FM Ken Smith recommended it (among many other things). A Russian GM whose name I've forgotten said he played through thousands of games quickly when he was learning a new opening.

I don't think you can mechanically move pieces around and expect much learning to accrue. However, if you are mentally engaged with the games, asking questions, noting patterns and whatnot, I imagine it could be useful.

I suspect, though, that this exercise works better the stronger you are as a player, because stronger players have a larger store of knowledge and can see what's happening on the board without having to think as much through.

I've done it occasionally when I'm studying an opening and start blazing through games just because it's so easy to do with a computer. I can't say it's improved my play but it gives me a better sense of what positions can arise.

ipcress12

Re: Chernev...

Yeah, I've compared his game annotations to engine output and it can be amusing.

But I've done the same with Capablanca and Botvinnik, and found they could be a bit too sure of their assessments as well.

MisterBoy

This might be a really stupid question, but for someone who is more at the beginner end (1300-1500), is studying games between grandmasters the best way to learn?

What I mean is, they are able to understand the board at a level that most of us cannot comprehend let alone achieve - calculating many moves ahead and so on.

Or, do the basic ideas they're working from apply to us mere mortals? 

Ziryab
MisterBoy wrote:

This might be a really stupid question, but for someone who is more at the beginner end (1300-1500), is studying games between grandmasters the best way to learn?

What I mean is, they are able to understand the board at a level that most of us cannot comprehend let alone achieve - calculating many moves ahead and so on.

Or, do the basic ideas they're working from apply to us mere mortals? 

I think that studying games between nineteenth century masters is better than games between today's GMs. The tactics and positional concepts in those old games are a little more transparent.

That's part of why Chernev's books are so useful. Logical Chess: Move by Move, The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played, and Capablanca's Best Endgames are all worthwhile. 

silvester78

Chernev's book is aimed exactly at beginner's level and his annotations are very detailed and suitable for every beginner player. Most games are great and is a pleasure to play them on a board.

But there are also books with annotated games between amateurs (not beginners). Such a book is Heisman's. I haven't read it yet, but it is the next. I've downloaded it in forward chess app.

MisterBoy

Interesting. The premise being to see what NOT to do?

ipcress12
Ziryab wrote:

I think that studying games between nineteenth century masters is better than games between today's GMs. The tactics and positional concepts in those old games are a little more transparent.

Good point. I came back to chess after a 30-year layoff and was fairly boggled when I  looked at 21st century games.

chungle

Nezhhmetdinov's Best Games of Chess by Rashid Nezhmetinov (Caissa Editions)

Awsome book!

NightKingx

I am going through logical chess move by move and I have seen that the first game is ok, as is the first game, but the second starts equaly commenting that e4 is a good move because bla bla bla. The first game didnt go further than the 17th move and I have seen that other games in the book also start with e4 is a good move because bla bla bla, and now I am wondering if everything in the book is like that or there are going to be good games for advance players, like real GM vs GM or just games to show tactics for beginners like in the first example. Anyone?

PossibleOatmeal

The whole book is like that.  It is aimed at a lower level audience.

killercrab

@pawpatrol

like us.  We are no chess experts.

killercrab

I am rated above 1800 USCF, but I know that I can learn much from Chernev, a master, and that I understand very little about the game.

pfren

Comparing Chernev's pulp to Reti's monumental "Masters of the Chessboard" is no less than an insult.

Ever wondered why the Russian schoolboys are so good at chess? The answer is simple: They have never read a Chernev book...

MSC157

^Hehehe. So do you recommend Reti's book in any case?

Ziryab
SkyMarshal wrote:

I am going through logical chess move by move and I have seen that the first game is ok, as is the first game, but the second starts equaly commenting that e4 is a good move because bla bla bla. The first game didnt go further than the 17th move and I have seen that other games in the book also start with e4 is a good move because bla bla bla, and now I am wondering if everything in the book is like that or there are going to be good games for advance players, like real GM vs GM or just games to show tactics for beginners like in the first example. Anyone?

The games becore more balanced in the last half.

Justs99171
pfren wrote:

Comparing Chernev's pulp to Reti's monumental "Masters of the Chessboard" is no less than an insult.

Ever wondered why the Russian schoolboys are so good at chess? The answer is simple: They have never read a Chernev book...

Thank you

SilentKnighte5

Ziryab talking about himself in 3rd person is funny.

Ziryab
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

I think the following authors have the best U1500 instructive annotated game books:

Steve Giddins Neil McDonald Irving Chernev
You do yourself a disservice by not reading their books.

I think Ziryab might agree with you.

pfren
MSC157 wrote:

^Hehehe. So do you recommend Reti's book in any case?

Yes, of course I do.