ChessBaron Bait-and-Switch WARNING

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GrandPatzerDave-taken

I placed an order with ChessBaron on November 22, 2021 for their “Sinead Staunton Chess Pieces in Rosewood”, product code X4014. After receiving the order on December 1 I was surprised to find that the knight (the very reason I placed the order) looked decidedly different from what I remembered from the website photos. So I began searching out photos from the website for both what I ordered and what I received. I found the set I received (“Ami Elizabeth”, product code X3006) and assumed that it was a simple shipping mistake until I noticed a sticker on the set's plastic wrapper with the same product number as that I ordered (X4014). Odd but mistakes do happen.

 

I contacted ChessBaron via email with a detailed description of what I discovered along with several photos I had of the knight as well as those from both their web site. Following are the photos for your comparison. Cursory followed by close examination reveals “one of these isn't like the others”.

 

Here's the knight from the set I ordered:

To me, this is a beautiful knight! Definitely one of the best I've seen in quite a while. Not overdone or flamboyant but also not clunky and awkward. Balanced, well-proportioned, and simply natural.

 

Here's the knight I received (shot from a similar angle for easy comparison - apologies for the rotation by lousy forum software):

Are these the same? Only in the sense that they're both knights...

 

For perspective, here's the photo from the ChessBaron website of the knight that matches what I received:

 

 

...and what I actually received (shot from a similar angle for easy comparison - apologies for the rotation by lousy forum software):

 

Is anyone going to try to tell me the Sinead (X4014) and Ami Elizabeth (X3006) are the same knights? If so, sober up, clean your glasses, and try again: start with the ears and work your way down comparing the details.

 

Is anyone going to try to tell me that the differences are due to minor carving inaccuracies? If so, you probably work for ChessBaron and need to have your eyes checked. It's utterly ridiculous to take such a position and yet that's exactly what was done. Following is a snippet of the response to my initial request for resolution:

 

  • begin email snippet –

The Sidead (sic) is the Ami Elizabeth and is the Supreme - this is the same design in differing names. Over the years the design creeps a little - but this is the right design. With the leather base - we found that people hugely wanted the felt because of the ability to 'slide' across the board - the friction of the leather didn't allow that. Admittedly we need to upgrade the photos.”

  • end email snippet –

 

I was stunned. I've never heard such a pathetic rationalization. “...this is the right design”. Seriously?  Only in the grossest sense. Hell, from some angles my dog looks to have the same design as a horse. Two different product codes at two different price points with obvious, glaring differences in the knights but they're “the same”? It gets better. After challenging the company's stunt as misrepresentation I get this work of art as a reply:

 

  • begin email snippet –

This is the nature of hand crafted products. We've been selling chess for nearly 20 years - the design creeps. There's a person whittling away at the pieces and the material comes from a tree. Misrepresentation is a little strong.

  • end email snippet –

 

Wow. Just wow. Utter rubbish, as they say somewhere. Here in Texas this is known as the absolute purest of b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t from a patronizing j.a.c.k.a.s.s. However, I am glad that ChessBaron has served so many in the sight-impaired community “for nearly 20 years”. Important work, that, but News Flash: in general, customers expect to receive precisely what they order. After two decades of dealing with multiple vendors of chess equipment I've never, ever, ever had an issue such as this.

 

Trust is a fragile thing and once broken is extremely difficult to repair. It was suggested that I return the set (at my cost) for refund (to include the shipping cost). But after I was informed of the actual cost of return shipping I have no trust in this organization to not slither out of an actual refund. Do I want to continue to wrestle this pig? Screw it: I gave the set to a kid. Lesson learned, albeit an expensive one.

 

Some here will now leap to the defense of the indefensible but as far as I'm concerned Chess Baron is a garbage company using bait-and-switch tactics and laughably pathetic justifications. Utterly unacceptable. BEWARE!

MCH818

The knights are not the same as what you ordered. The knights received definitely look like the X3006. I understand what Chess Baron was saying. I agree that the design does "creep a little" when the manufacturer can't make it exact, but as a retailer you better change the photos to reflect the changes from the manufacturer. The knight you received has similarities to the one in the site photos, but it is not the same as the X4014 you ordered. I would ask them for a return with a shipping label on their dime.

Btw, Dave can you change the font color back to black?

GrandPatzerDave-taken
MCH818 wrote:

The knights are not the same. I understand what they are saying. It is fine if the design "creeps" changes, but as a retailer you better change the photos to reflect the changes. The knight you received has similarities to the one in the site photos, but it is not the same.

Btw, Dave can you change the font color back to black?

Did that fix the font color?

lotsoblots

Those knights are not the same. It's a shame you didn't push them a bit harder, @GrandPatzerDave...they shouldn't get away with it.

lotsoblots
GrandPatzerDave wrote:
MCH818 wrote:

The knights are not the same. I understand what they are saying. It is fine if the design "creeps" changes, but as a retailer you better change the photos to reflect the changes. The knight you received has similarities to the one in the site photos, but it is not the same.

Btw, Dave can you change the font color back to black?

Did that fix the font color?

LOL, now it's messed up in dark mode. wink.png

GrandPatzerDave-taken
lotsoblots wrote:
GrandPatzerDave wrote:
MCH818 wrote:

The knights are not the same. I understand what they are saying. It is fine if the design "creeps" changes, but as a retailer you better change the photos to reflect the changes. The knight you received has similarities to the one in the site photos, but it is not the same.

Btw, Dave can you change the font color back to black?

Did that fix the font color?

LOL, now it's messed up in dark mode.

Yeah, I'm a posting clown - I use dark mode and I guess that's how it got messed up in the first place.  Ugh.

MCH818

Thanks for fixing the color of the font.

The set is not the same. However I agree that "misrepresentation" is a little strong at this point. They probably just didn't look at the knights when they received their shipment and/or just didn't want to update the photos for some reason. None of which is your fault. They should allow you to return the set at no charge and pay for return shipping. That would be most fair. If they refuse then I think a call to your credit card company will be justified.

 

GrandPatzerDave-taken
MCH818 wrote:

Thanks for fixing the color of the font.

I agree that misrepresentation is a little strong though. They probably just didn't look at the knights when they received their shipkejt and/or just didn't want to update the photos for some reason. None of which is your fault. They should allow you to return the set at no charge and pay for return shipping. That would be most fair. If the refuse then I think a call to the credit card company may be warranted.

I can't tell if I fixed the font or just broke it a different way, hahaha!

I'm sure there's a whole chain of screwups on their part that set the stage for this.  Quality control is a vital part of the product.  Allowing it to "creep" in this manner is sloppy and unacceptable.

Their proposal was for me to front the shipping but it would be refunded as part of the set refund.  Enter the "lack of trust" thing.  I hit my patience limit and just decided to take my medicine and move on...but not without posting this review of their antics.

MCH818

Haha! It looks fine now.

I agree there were lots of screw ups, but that could just have been solved by updating the photos on their website. 

Their proposal is strange. Why can't they send you a shipping label? That is pretty standard practice in the retail business these days. When HoS messed up on one of my orders, they sent a shipping label. That's pretty standard stuff. 

I agree with @Lotsoblots. You can't let them get away with this. I suggest you don't keep the set. It will make you mad every time you look at it. Case and point... I bought this custom made chess box from Etsy. The below photo is one of the many issues wrong with this custom made box. The seller offered to make me a new one but it was so terrible to begin with that I didn't even want to waste our time. I was so feed up with Etsy that I didn't even want to make a trip to FedEx or UPS to send it back to the seller. I was pretty upset every time I saw the box. I eventually threw out the box. My suggestion is to send the set back.

 

TheOneCalledMichael

Ow that's why I saw only white page, the font was in white lol

Yeah I know how you exactly feel mister Dave, just had the same experience not so long ago. Those knights are definitely different in so many ways: nose holes, flat eyes, deep cuts behind the eyes, square ears, deep horizontal cuts behind the mouth, short cuts under the jaw etc etc etc maaan that's too many differences to be able to say 'just design creeps'. Sure it's handcrafted but what they delivered is just a botched knight. Period.

Another dirty trick is insisting it's the same so they can say refund is possible but returning fee is on your own cost. They know how expensive that is so they force you in a sneaky way just to accept it. For European that's totally f*cked up because they won't reimburse the VAT + Duties on top of the shipping fee for returning the set. They know exactly what they're doing.

Chessbaron is on blacklist for me now.

GrandPatzerDave-taken
TheOneCalledMichael wrote:

Ow that's why I saw only white page, the font was in white lol

Yeah I know how you exactly feel mister Dave, just had the same experience not so long ago. Those knights are definitely different in so many ways: nose holes, flat eyes, deep cuts behind the eyes, square ears, deep horizontal cuts behind the mouth, short cuts under the jaw etc etc etc maaan that's too many differences to be able to say 'just design creeps'. Sure it's handcrafted but what they delivered is just a botched knight. Period.

Another dirty trick is insisting it's the same so they can say refund is possible but returning fee is on your own cost. They know how expensive that is so they force you in a sneaky way just to accept it. For European that's totally f*cked up because they won't reimburse the VAT + Duties on top of the shipping fee for returning the set. They know exactly what they're doing.

Chessbaron is on blacklist for me now.

Yeah, sorry about the font mixup.  I can only guess that dark mode had the font selection confused on my end and I botched trying to fix it.  And the rotated photos, too.  Argh!

Excellent eye, Sir!  You spotted all the same differences that jumped out at me.

I was actually about to return the set until I found out what it would cost just to ship it.  With my luck in this deal I can just see that it would get hung up in customs for some stupid thing or another.  That's when I decided to just take my (expensive) medicine, learn my lesson, and walk away.  I can well imagine that their idea of a refund would, due to "design creep", suddenly become a nothing more than a store credit, hahaha!  So, @MCH818, I would indeed be infuriated every time I saw the set - that's why I gave it away to a kid.  Fixed!  All except for begging forgiveness from She Who Must be Obeyed...

And I think I'm quite done with international sellers of all kinds.  I'm glad for you guys that have had great luck but it seems it really does come down to luck after all.  Along with this ChessBaron debacle I'm disgusted with those clowns at World Chess and a couple of Etsy sellers too.  Such "fun" for which I have no tolerance.

TheOneCalledMichael

Oh btw, I'd like to see your dog 🐕  from certain angle that it'd look like a horse. You must have a funny horse.

lighthouse
GrandPatzerDave wrote:
TheOneCalledMichael wrote:

Ow that's why I saw only white page, the font was in white lol

Yeah I know how you exactly feel mister Dave, just had the same experience not so long ago. Those knights are definitely different in so many ways: nose holes, flat eyes, deep cuts behind the eyes, square ears, deep horizontal cuts behind the mouth, short cuts under the jaw etc etc etc maaan that's too many differences to be able to say 'just design creeps'. Sure it's handcrafted but what they delivered is just a botched knight. Period.

Another dirty trick is insisting it's the same so they can say refund is possible but returning fee is on your own cost. They know how expensive that is so they force you in a sneaky way just to accept it. For European that's totally f*cked up because they won't reimburse the VAT + Duties on top of the shipping fee for returning the set. They know exactly what they're doing.

Chessbaron is on blacklist for me now.

Yeah, sorry about the font mixup.  I can only guess that dark mode had the font selection confused on my end and I botched trying to fix it.  And the rotated photos, too.  Argh!

Excellent eye, Sir!  You spotted all the same differences that jumped out at me.

I was actually about to return the set until I found out what it would cost just to ship it.  With my luck in this deal I can just see that it would get hung up in customs for some stupid thing or another.  That's when I decided to just take my (expensive) medicine, learn my lesson, and walk away.  I can well imagine that their idea of a refund would, due to "design creep", suddenly become a nothing more than a store credit, hahaha!  So, @MCH818, I would indeed be infuriated every time I saw the set - that's why I gave it away to a kid.  Fixed!  All except for begging forgiveness from She Who Must be Obeyed...

And I think I'm quite done with international sellers of all kinds.  I'm glad for you guys that have had great luck but it seems it really does come down to luck after all.  Along with this ChessBaron debacle I'm disgusted with those clowns at World Chess and a couple of Etsy sellers too.  Such "fun" for which I have no tolerance.

As my late mother taught me get what you pay for / if not get your money back / This is Bull s''it wink.png

magictwanger

I'm with you all the way Dave! What ever happened to "the customer comes first mentality"?

I owned a small business for over 35 years and literally bent over backwards for even my smallest customer.....Sometimes when they were wrong,because that's how you stay in business for that length of time....Sheesh!

MCH818
GrandPatzerDave wrote:

Yeah, sorry about the font mixup.  I can only guess that dark mode had the font selection confused on my end and I botched trying to fix it.  And the rotated photos, too.  Argh!

Excellent eye, Sir!  You spotted all the same differences that jumped out at me.

I was actually about to return the set until I found out what it would cost just to ship it.  With my luck in this deal I can just see that it would get hung up in customs for some stupid thing or another.  That's when I decided to just take my (expensive) medicine, learn my lesson, and walk away.  I can well imagine that their idea of a refund would, due to "design creep", suddenly become a nothing more than a store credit, hahaha!  So, @MCH818, I would indeed be infuriated every time I saw the set - that's why I gave it away to a kid.  Fixed!  All except for begging forgiveness from She Who Must be Obeyed...

And I think I'm quite done with international sellers of all kinds.  I'm glad for you guys that have had great luck but it seems it really does come down to luck after all.  Along with this ChessBaron debacle I'm disgusted with those clowns at World Chess and a couple of Etsy sellers too.  Such "fun" for which I have no tolerance.

Well, at least you don't have to see the set every single day.

Buying chess stuff these days can be so unpredictable. All we need are the ding ding ding sounds and we'll pretty much be in Vegas. 

ZIMBABWAEED1989

I  would have bought   a set from  Chessbaron , if i had not seen  this  post. I have had a problem with Chesbazzar   , and  I have stopped  buying their sets. ( see my post on  The review of the CB sinquefeld cup 2017.)   I am going to get  future sets from the local  antique shops and flea markets.   In the past,  I bought 5 chess sets, and  5 wood boards  from those sources.  Early Spanish indagesa, 1950( s) 3.75" Lardy,  2   Druke, and a Russian 1980(s)  "poured amber".   I also bought a few assorted plastic sets.  Goodbye India., at least for the  next year or 3.   Edward  Dubin 

ZIMBABWAEED1989

P.S. I forgot to mention my Russian   "gulag " set.

jjupiter6

Is this an actual bait and switch? Did he intentionally deceive you by falsely representing the product and then switching it with something inferior?

JoPublic
It is the same “ supreme design” but due to a severe shortage vendors are having to purchase from many different hubs in Amritsar and as a consequence there are interpretations of the same design; I agree however, that ChessBaron ought to have updated their images to reflect those differences
GrandPatzerDave-taken
jjupiter6 wrote:

Is this an actual bait and switch? Did he intentionally deceive you by falsely representing the product and then switching it with something inferior?

It's either intentional or abject incompetence, we can't know.  The false representation was via the photos of the Sinead knight on the web site which, when shipped, suddenly became the Ami Elizabeth night through the magic lens of "design creep".  The bait was the Sinead knight photos and the switch was shipping the inferior knight.  Part of their deceit is "oh, yeah, I guess we should update the web site's photos".