DGT Centaur chess computer brief review

Both sides have to repeat the same moves three times consecutively for the draw by repetition to be triggered. If one side does not play the exact same moves then it will not trigger.

If you have the move list saved on your laptop then if you could post the position and moves concerned here I would be interested to take a look.

The Centaur’s nearest rival in terms of form factor (i.e. large standalone chess computer) is the Millennium King Performance. However, Millennium also decided to forego modernising the computer chess protocol so, as far as I know, draw by repetition three works the same. Also no piece recognition but you can use any set you like without having to make adjustments to them.

I would recommend the DGT smart board to use with your chess engine on your laptop. If it won’t work, you can also use the Arena GUI as a go between. You can also use the Smart Board on Chess.com and other platforms so would give you versatility without the outlay that Millennium puts one through to get similar connectivity.

Centaur abides by the new FIDE 2014 rules for chess. That means it will be a draw automatically after 5 consecutive repetitions. Next to that he recognises the 3 fold repetition rule but will not claim a draw. But you can see that he will score the position 0.00 when the weaker side can make the 3rd repetition.  

The same issue also occurs with the 50 move rule. Centaur uses the 75 move rule after which it automatically is a draw (without a player making a claim). But it also recognises (but will not claim) the 50 move rule as can be seen by his evaluation of the position after 49 moves without capture or pawn move. 

I encountered these issues when I first got the Centaur. The discussion about this you can find here: https://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=94160#94160 Because the evaluation of the position by Centaur after 3 fold repetition or 50 moves without pawn move or capture are correct there is no issue in my book because he will try to avoid these positions if he think he's better (and is set at stronger level). The only thing is that the player will have to claim the draw, just like in a game against another human. Next to that it will be automatically a draw after 5 fold repetition (consecutively) and 75 move rule just as it should by the latest modern FIDE chess rules. If you buy another modern chess-computer chances are you will encounter the same "issue".

What is the problem with take back? In my opinion it can't be easier. No messing in the menu, just take back the last move(s) on the board and play something else. 

I don’t understand the mentality of ordering one of these, pitting it against stockfish, and then complaining about trivial issues (or how it fares against a top engine). Play it yourself and enjoy it. I’ve yet to beat it on expert. Regardless, every game is fun and challenging. 

I cannot see anything in the FIDE rules 2014 that says 3 move or 5 move repetition has to happen consecutively. The rules are available on PDF and can be found via Google.

The retro computers in my collection announce three move repetition (consecutive) and 50 move but give the option of continuing to play. I personally prefer the computer to make an announcement of such a situation than to not do so.

Carrinthe: Thanks for clarifying how the Centaur actually recognizes the three-move repetition rule. How are you aware of the FIDE rules that the Centaur’s engine is supposed to abide by? 

EDIT: Thanks for including the link to the Hiarcs.net article. It seems that you've been aware of this since 2019. That's to be expected of the netizens who dwell in that forum.

I set up a position on my Centaur to test the repetition thing and indeed the Centaur makes no actual announcement of threefold repetition. Additionally, one only sees the 0.0 score on the screen when one scrolls back through the move list in my test.

After five consecutive moves in my test the computer made an announcement of Fivefold repetition and shows —.— as the positional score if one continues play unless one plays a move that breaks out of the repetition when they continue after the announcement.

So I stand corrected and apologise accordingly.

As an aside, I tried the same test position on the Millennium King Performance which did announce Repetition Three and declared it a draw. I could only continue play by going into menu and choosing “move” each time it was KP’s turn and I wasn’t able to trigger Fivefold repetition.

For me perfection would have been if Centaur had announced Threefold repetition but not called a draw until Fivefold repetition. The fact the Centaur allows one to play on normally gets a point over the KP simply because I think it helps the learner.

Another aside, I tried my test position against the Chess.com engine that dew the game as threefold repetition.  One would assume the engine on this site is using the latest rules.

(I chose this position because on the Centaur it does not trigger Mate in X or Draw by Insufficient material.  It is unlikely the prior would have made any difference but I wanted to eliminate the possibility.)

I did some digging around and have come to the following conclusions:

The 2014 fide rules of chess included repetition 3 and the 50 move rule.  It also includes the repetition 5 and 75 move rule though the difference between the two is that the repetition 5 and 75 move must be consecutive.  It would seem that in the 2017 revision of FIDE's rules of chess, the requirement for repetition 5 and 75 move rules to be consecutive were removed and the repetition 3 and 50 move rule left in so they appear to coexist.  I point to an amended document with helpful annotations in the latter example.

This means two things for the Centaur.  1) It is already out of date.  2) It should be announcing repetition 3 even if it does not claim a draw.

My view is that unless FIDE exclude Repetition 3 and 50 move rule, older chess computers citing as such are still valid in their claims.

Correct me if I am incorrect in my research.

I am aware I have made three consecutive posts on this thread so will not add any more on this subject - I offer a draw

Sources: (I include images so you do not have to trawl through the linked to sites)

https://www.chessprogramming.org/Repetitions

https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012014

https://www.norfolkchess.org/PDF/Laws_of_Chess_2017.pdf

Chess Programming:

FIDE handbook 2014

FIDE rules 2017 via Northfolk Chess Club (with annotations)

It's unfortunate that the DGT Centaur that I ordered becomes defective in just around 7-months even if I don't use it regularly. I just hope the DGT team will contact me and provide support. Here's the video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/nEhYXP3gjzM

It's a trifle annoying that the games played on the DGT Centaur cannot be saved, But....We mostly all have mobile phones with a camera, and the DGT does keep the whole list of moves until you replace the pieces back to the start, it is possible to photograph each of the move lists and save them to a PC and then write a PGN file in text outlining all the moves in any 1 game. Then copy that PGN file and play it back on one of the chess sites.

Just received my new Centaur.  I want to abandon a game and start from scratch.  Even after powering off and resetting the pieces in the new game starting position, the Centaur is forcing the position of the previous game.  I thought resetting the pieces automatically starts a game from scratch.  The Centaur reallllly wants to finish the original game.  Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

On my Centaur, when I want to start a new game with the Centaur still on, I merely put the pieces back into their original starting position and the Centaur recognizes that and begins a new game.

This is the answer as described in the user manual.

SALE! DGT Centaur price drop currently (Sept 5, 2021).

$300 shipped on Amazon Prime.

$309 shipped at Chesshouse with coupon. ($40 off $350+ order CODE: STRATEGY40)

Clearing out old stock for a new DGT Centaur Version 3? We shall see!

I hope not as I will be forced to buy it.

I just ordered one from Amazon yesterday.  It is on sale recently for $297 and free shipping. 

I bought it mostly for practicing my kid for OTB, who plays decently online but not so well with real pieces out in the tournament... I also plan to play a little bit more chess myself. I hope it won't disappoint me!

One question I have is whether the board will work well with multiple players? Say that me and my kids won't be at the same level I wonder if the adaptive algo thing may screw up the experience.. 

It adapts based on the the moves in a single game,  every game is a blank slate (I sent them an email with that very question). 

Did you get this response from manufacturer? Because I remember reading from some thread that someone claims it adapts after a few games. And the parameters look completely different from one GM level strong player to another weak plauer.. something like that. Thanks

Directly from the manufacturer.  See the exact question and response below:

================================

Dear Chess Fan,

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

The DGT Centaur adapts during the game. If you make a strong move the DGT Centaur will adapt to that depending on the playing strength. So it will adapt with every move you make.

 

In the link below you can read more about the DGT Centaur.

http://dgt.nl/index.php/products/chess-computers/400-dgtcentaur

 

At the moment we have an campaign at www.dgtshop.nl. With coupon code TEACH you will get 25 EURO (incl VAT) discount on your DGT Centaur.

 

I hope I informed you sufficiently, but in case of any questions we are happy to help you.

 

Best regards,

Rishma Koop | DGT
Customer Service

digitalgametechnology.com
+31 (0)53 430 51 95

-----Original Message-----
From: Website response <webmaster@dgtprojects.com>
Sent: zondag 10 mei 2020 20:24
To: Info | DGT <info@dgtprojects.com>
Subject: Centaur question?

 

You received a message from markmun99@gmail.com

 

Does the Centaur on friendly mode adapt based on previously played games or current game only?

 

Thanks!