Help me identifiy this chess set

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Avatar of MarcoMerlin

Guys, do any of you have a clue about the maker of this antique set? The knight looks a lot like the one from Dirk Dagobert's Amazonia, but he other pieces don't.

Avatar of RichColorado

hm . .the white queen and king are on the wrong color squares. .

If the queen is white it goes on a white square. "D1"

If the Queen is black it goes on a black square. "D8"

Avatar of ferpesan
Interesting.
The most famous brazilian chess pieces are the Petropolis, the Amazonia and the Bragança. It reminds parts of them as you mentioned. Why don’t you send the pictures to Dirk Dagobert? He may know.
Do you have any extra info?


Avatar of MarcoMerlin
ferpesan escreveu:
Interesting.
The most famous brazilian chess pieces are the Petropolis, the Amazonia and the Bragança. It reminds parts of them as you mentioned. Why don’t you send the pictures to Dirk Dagobert? He may know.
Do you have any extra info?

Yes, I may try contacting Mr. Dirk Dagobert, but I don't think it's a set of his making. Maybe he has a clue about manufacturers, though most known brands of chess pieces in Brazil no longer exist (Bonatto, Luiz de Genaro and Souza Lobo). Your message reminds me that I'm still trying to figure out the name of the maker of the 1973 Petropolis set (it seems to be either Bonatto or Luiz de Genaro).

Avatar of Abtectous
I think first you must identify what color square the white king goes on.
Avatar of ungewichtet

It is true that before a game of 'help me identify this chess set' the original placement of the pieces must be secured

But, corner spotters, bear in mind that the ashtapada, a classic 8x8 gaming board that was used to develop and play chaturanga on, was a monochrome board, not checkered! And, king/queen spotters, remember that chaturanga, for example, was played like this:

The board is checkered now to make it easier to follow diagonals and envision the scope and move the long range pieces bishop and queen on (pieces which may have joined the canon of the family of games chess is a part of only in the 13th and 15th century, respectively). For that end, the actual rotation of the board does not matter.

So, in case of actual misplacement of board or pieces, I use it to remind me that it is only for practical reasons (pattern recognition on boards and diagrams?) that the close right corner is always set up to be a white square.

And to remember, that king and minister (now queen) used to be set up to meet point symmetry, not axial symmetry. It's still a symmetry, as regular a symmetry as the other one.

Axial symmetry, in our chess, makes for a more tactical and fast game because of all the white Qa5 and Qh5 checks and black's Qh4 and Qa4 checks. (But this can not have been the reason for the point symmetrical set up at the time of chaturanga, because in chaturanga, the mantri, unlike the queen today, moved only one square diagonally in the slow game played at that time).

Nice pieces, thank you, MarcoMerlin! Hope to learn more about them!

Avatar of MarcoMerlin
Abtectous escreveu:
I think first you must identify what color square the white king goes on.

Yeah, I didn't take this pic, I just bought this set and am waiting for it to arrive. This is the seller's photo.

Avatar of MarcoMerlin
ungewichtet escreveu:

It is true that before a game of 'help me identify this chess set' the original placement of the pieces must be secured

But, corner spotters, bear in mind that the ashtapada, a classic 8x8 gaming board that was used to develop and play chaturanga on, was a monochrome board, not checkered! And, king/queen spotters, remember that chaturanga, for example, was played like this:

The board is checkered now to make it easier to follow diagonals and envision the scope and move the long range pieces bishop and queen on (pieces which may have joined the canon of the family of games chess is a part of only in the 13th and 15th century, respectively). For that end, the actual rotation of the board does not matter.

So, in case of actual misplacement of board or pieces, I use it to remind me that it is only for practical reasons (pattern recognition on boards and diagrams?) that the close right corner is always set up to be a white square.

And to remember, that king and minister (now queen) used to be set up to meet point symmetry, not axial symmetry. It's still a symmetry, as regular a symmetry as the other one.

Axial symmetry, in our chess, makes for a more tactical and fast game because of all the white Qa5 and Qh5 checks and black's Qh4 and Qa4 checks. (But this can not have been the reason for the point symmetrical set up at the time of chaturanga, because in chaturanga, the mantri, unlike the queen today, moved only one square diagonally in the slow game played at that time).

Nice pieces, thank you, MarcoMerlin! Hope to learn more about them!

Very nice info, thank you! It seems to me that the most practical reasons for using a checkered board is identifying the bishops (light squared x dark squared) and calculating the jumps of the knight – imagine the mental work it would be to make your king escape a series of fork threats if you didn't know the color of the squares the knight is attacking next!

Avatar of ungewichtet
MarcoMerlin wrote:

Very nice info, thank you! It seems to me that the most practical reasons for using a checkered board is identifying the bishops (light squared x dark squared) and calculating the jumps of the knight – imagine the mental work it would be to make your king escape a series of fork threats if you didn't know the color of the squares the knight is attacking next!

I did not think of it this way but you must be right, imagining knight moves must be so much easier on a checkered board, too! The knight move, unlike queen and bishop moves, has been part of chaturanga- so they had to calculate 'ashva'-moves without the help of the colour alternation (while the rook- the war chariot and only long range piece then- never needed checkered assistance).

Avatar of ferpesan
Marco,
Indeed. Who is the manufacturer of the Petropolis 1973 pieces? Great question. I have no idea. Nevertheless, I believe there are less original Petropolis sets in the market than original Dubrovnik sets…
Good luck with your investigation..