I ordered from four of the major chess retailers and heres what happened.

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magictwanger

I'm not a fan of flaws either,but I realize that the vast majority of sets are not really very expensive compared to other hobbies( a couple hundred bucks on average,or less actually) so I'm basically rationalizing away any flaws.....but...Overall I'm quite picky and usually won't let a problem go without a good fight.

greghunt
Stauntonmaster wrote:

Lead and metal both expand and contract with temperature which can put pressure on the surrounding wood and cause hairline split. Ebony and padauk are more vulnerable to these cracks than boxwood. Out of hundreds of chess sets that I have seen these cracks will eventually develop and are inevitable. Unweighted chess sets seem less vulnerable but if the wood has not been processed scientifically it will surely crack at some point. 

Oh sigh, leaving aside scientific processing of wood, wood cracks.  Repeated changes in humidity will crack it.  Too much drying will crack it.  

 

Lead IS metal on this planet.  The thermal expansion coefficient of lead is a factor of about 0.000029 per degree Celcius so heating and cooling of the metal is not all that likely to impact the timber that its embedded in (imagine a 15 degree temperature change, on a 6mm lead plug, thats 6 * 0.000029 * 15 mm = 0.00261mm, technically what is referred to as not a whole lot). What is likely to have a larger effect is humidity changes in the timber (by about a factor of ten, ten percent humidity change in ebony, about 0.02mm per mm, you can get to tenths of a mm fairly quickly with that much movement, say 6mm thickness of wood * 0.02mm = 0.12mm, movement is along the growth rings, not along the grain so 6mm might be too small as a number).  What makes the behaviour more interesting is that a plug inserted into the chess piece would slow the humidity changes and cause the edges to dry faster then the centre.  The question is, do the cracks start in the centre (thermal expansion of metal) or at the edge (drying of the timber).   

Eyechess
Stauntonmaster wrote:

House of Staunton version one is more correct. I chess jargen lead means lead and metal means iron but the word ‘iron’ is not used. 

It amazes me as it do3es others that this Stauntonmaster keeps coming up with detailed and completely wrong "facts".

And the word is spelled jargon.

loubalch
Eyechess wrote:
Stauntonmaster wrote:

House of Staunton version one is more correct. I chess jargen lead means lead and metal means iron but the word ‘iron’ is not used. 

It amazes me as it do3es others that this Stauntonmaster keeps coming up with detailed and completely wrong "facts".

And the word is spelled jargon.

Stauntonmaster. Got to love him. "He's seldom right, but never in doubt"

Eyechess

Once again, Stauntonmaster is saying things that are completely wrong.

The problem with lead is not cancer.  It is lead poisoning which can cause problems with the brain and nervous system, the stomach and the kidneys.  Stauntonmaster is obviously trying to use scare tactics by claiming it causes cancer, which it does not.

And the term metal does not mean iron.  There are a number of different metals used in weighting chess sets including brass.

And no one here is being a boot licker to any of the sellers.  We are simply providing facts and calling out Stauntonmaster for his wrong statements.

magictwanger

To be honest,I could live without "any" weighting! Just put a bit more into producing a really nice/quality set and I'm good to go.

greghunt
A chess piece could crack from shrinking onto the weight, which could look like a reaction to the weight expanding. Putting something elastic between them would reduce that cracking. Do the cracks ever run up the piece from the weight?
Deadenglish
joeukchess wrote:

Stauntonmaster...the only cancer here is YOU! 

FYI. the top companies such as House of Staunton, Official Staunton etc use an expansion gap that is filled with a two pack and this allows the metal/Lead/ FE to have a movement that does not cause splitting 

Hi, I dont know whos right here since I just logged in to check my comments and replies, but can we please not call people a cancer in my thread? I would much more appreciate if you tell me theyre wrong and explain why (and explaining it thoroughly to the point that any rebuttal by the wrong party would be viewed as silly should be satisfaction enough IMO). Other than that I gladly welcome all input.

Deadenglish
magictwanger wrote:

To be honest,I could live without "any" weighting! Just put a bit more into producing a really nice/quality set and I'm good to go.

See, I feel the opposite, I love a good hefty set. Makes playing over the board a little more special in my opinion (but thats just a preference).

Deadenglish
greghunt wrote:
Stauntonmaster wrote:

Lead and metal both expand and contract with temperature which can put pressure on the surrounding wood and cause hairline split. Ebony and padauk are more vulnerable to these cracks than boxwood. Out of hundreds of chess sets that I have seen these cracks will eventually develop and are inevitable. Unweighted chess sets seem less vulnerable but if the wood has not been processed scientifically it will surely crack at some point. 

Oh sigh, leaving aside scientific processing of wood, wood cracks.  Repeated changes in humidity will crack it.  Too much drying will crack it.  

 

Lead IS metal on this planet.  The thermal expansion coefficient of lead is a factor of about 0.000029 per degree Celcius so heating and cooling of the metal is not all that likely to impact the timber that its embedded in (imagine a 15 degree temperature change, on a 6mm lead plug, thats 6 * 0.000029 * 15 mm = 0.00261mm, technically what is referred to as not a whole lot). What is likely to have a larger effect is humidity changes in the timber (by about a factor of ten, ten percent humidity change in ebony, about 0.02mm per mm, you can get to tenths of a mm fairly quickly with that much movement, say 6mm thickness of wood * 0.02mm = 0.12mm, movement is along the growth rings, not along the grain so 6mm might be too small as a number).  What makes the behaviour more interesting is that a plug inserted into the chess piece would slow the humidity changes and cause the edges to dry faster then the centre.  The question is, do the cracks start in the centre (thermal expansion of metal) or at the edge (drying of the timber).   

Wow, thank you for the insight, from what ive seen (not experienced) it looks like what you talked about in your later post with the cracks happening from the timber expanding and contracting onto the harder weights (Like I said before, I heard that lead provided a little more give than the harder steele and other metals, but I am admitedly ignorant on that matter). So from what ive seen it looks like cracks that start at the center of the skirt area of the piece (where the weights normaly lay inside.

magictwanger

Bottom Line to MFGRS.....Make a damn effort to give the buying public pieces that are not "as prone" to cracking!! I don't care if you raise your prices in an effort to market superior sets,btw.

Better wood,properly seasoned and somebody who knows how to correctly weight the pieces....So hard??

Deadenglish
magictwanger wrote:

Bottom Line to MFGRS.....Make a damn effort to give the buying public pieces that are not "as prone" to cracking!! I don't care if you raise your prices in an effort to market superior sets,btw.

Better wood,properly seasoned and somebody who knows how to correctly weight the pieces....So hard??

AGREED!!!! I would pay the premium if it means I dont have to worry about the set lasting me a lifetime (or a half of one).

magictwanger

Before I began to collect sets(only 1 or 2 more and I'm done) I did extensive web searches and even companies like the well regarded HOS had numerous complaints,so as far as I'm concerned almost no company is off the hook....except NOJ,but sheesh I'm not sure I like their limited selections and aesthetics to make me want to spend those big bucks....Just my own tastes,because I think they might be the Gold Standard.

Eyechess

 I started buying wood sets when Frank Camaratta owned The House of Staunton and had no more than 3 or 4 sets that he sold.  From my experience, Frank was pretty much bullet proof as a retailer back then.  He had very tight agreements/contracts with his manufacturers so their quality was the best including properly seasoned wood and all.

Noj is a different situation than any of the others that are so well known on this forum.  The "company" includes Gregor, his brother and their retired father working part time with them.  They also are the ones making the sets as well as selling them.  There is no middle man,.  It is only them with Gregor being the one that will communicate with you on the product.  And a large part of their work and business is not Chess related but includes them making wood fountain pens.  The Chess part is what they do when the pen business is not "calling" them.  And they only produce a limited number of sets per year.

They use woods from Europe instead of the woods the manufacturers from India use.  And they only use European Maple and European Walnut, no others.  They also are hand making each and every piece.  The retired father is the one that does all the finish work on the sets.

What you end up getting from Noj is very carefully made Chess pieces in a quite limited volume.  Of course the quality is the best.  Also, as I can say from my experience with them this past Fall, their customer service is also the best.  I had a Dubrovnik set that I bought in May of 2010.  Both Walnut Queens got their main collar chipped in pretty much the same way.  After owning the set for 7 1/2 years, I certainly did not expect to be able to even buy a replacement.  I emailed Gregor and he had me send one of the original Queens for wood color matching.  He replaced both Queens at no charge whatsoever.  Yes, and that was on a set that was 7 1/2 years old!  Of course the wood was a complete match with the original and the workmanship was so good that you cannot tell these Queens were not made with the rest of the set, 7 1/2 years or more ago.

But remember, these guys are the ones making the pieces so when you buy from them you are buying directly from the manufacturer.

The only other company that I have not seen even one complaint about is The Official Staunton Company with Carl as the owner.  Carl apparently is a genius at getting his manufacturers to turn out impeccable work, consistently.  His customer service is speedy and excellent, as I experienced when I bought a board that came with a flaw.  Carl is also very reasonable in his pricing.  I have bought something like 5 sets and 2 boards from him and they all are perfect.  So I can say with complete confidence that Carl and The Official Staunton Company is the best retailer and not manufacturer out there for high quality sets.

I do need to also include 3 others when it comes to great retail.  That is Raphael and his Chess House, Ron Lohrman and The Rochester Chess Center, and Quentin and his ChessUSA.com business.  While these guys do not sell the highest quality sets, they do sell some wood sets and the other things they sell are great.  Ron Lohrman has his Rochester Chess Center where they provide Chess play and instruction as well as having a retail arm.  Raphael and Quentin are both younger men that own these retail businesses.

But I might very well be rambling on here.  The bottom line is that there are good places to buy quality Chess equipment.

Deadenglish
magictwanger wrote:

Before I began to collect sets(only 1 or 2 more and I'm done) I did extensive web searches and even companies like the well regarded HOS had numerous complaints,so as far as I'm concerned almost no company is off the hook....except NOJ,but sheesh I'm not sure I like their limited selections and aesthetics to make me want to spend those big bucks....Just my own tastes,because I think they might be the Gold Standard.

What does NOJ stand for?

Eyechess
Deadenglish wrote:
magictwanger wrote:

Before I began to collect sets(only 1 or 2 more and I'm done) I did extensive web searches and even companies like the well regarded HOS had numerous complaints,so as far as I'm concerned almost no company is off the hook....except NOJ,but sheesh I'm not sure I like their limited selections and aesthetics to make me want to spend those big bucks....Just my own tastes,because I think they might be the Gold Standard.

What does NOJ stand for?

That's a good question.

They are in Slovenia.  I just looked up what that means in slovenian and it says, ostrich.

They have been in business since 1979 making wood pens and furniture pulls, knobs and so forth.

The web address is: www.noj.si

magictwanger

I don't know what NOJ stands for,but I know they have a stellar reputation,as does Official Staunton.All the back story about NOJ I've read and they certainly seem to be an amazing company.

Deadenglish
Eyechess wrote:
Deadenglish wrote:
magictwanger wrote:

Before I began to collect sets(only 1 or 2 more and I'm done) I did extensive web searches and even companies like the well regarded HOS had numerous complaints,so as far as I'm concerned almost no company is off the hook....except NOJ,but sheesh I'm not sure I like their limited selections and aesthetics to make me want to spend those big bucks....Just my own tastes,because I think they might be the Gold Standard.

What does NOJ stand for?

That's a good question.

They are in Slovenia.  I just looked up what that means in slovenian and it says, ostrich.

They have been in business since 1979 making wood pens and furniture pulls, knobs and so forth.

The web address is: www.noj.si

Oh man, Haha, I thought you all were abbreviating like with HOS and CB (for house of staunton and chessbazzar respectively), It never occurred to me that that was the actual name. Sorry, sometimes I goof.

Deadenglish

Wow, Those are beautiful pieces.

liml
Deadenglish wrote:
magictwanger wrote:

Bottom Line to MFGRS.....Make a damn effort to give the buying public pieces that are not "as prone" to cracking!! I don't care if you raise your prices in an effort to market superior sets,btw.

Better wood,properly seasoned and somebody who knows how to correctly weight the pieces....So hard??

AGREED!!!! I would pay the premium if it means I dont have to worry about the set lasting me a lifetime (or a half of one).

That's pretty much how I assess things too - cost over time.